1
00:00:04,390 --> 00:00:01,990
today's guests are george knapp and

2
00:00:06,550 --> 00:00:04,400
colin kelleher on the topic of ufos the

3
00:00:08,710 --> 00:00:06,560
hitchhiker effect and the recent book

4
00:00:10,950 --> 00:00:08,720
skinwalkers at the pentagon linked in

5
00:00:13,190 --> 00:00:10,960
the description in fact any time a book

6
00:00:15,190 --> 00:00:13,200
an article a video is referenced in the

7
00:00:17,109 --> 00:00:15,200
toe podcast i've most likely placed a

8
00:00:19,029 --> 00:00:17,119
link to it in the description george

9
00:00:21,830 --> 00:00:19,039
knapp is an investigative journalist a

10
00:00:23,750 --> 00:00:21,840
news anchor a talk radio host who has so

11
00:00:25,670 --> 00:00:23,760
many awards that i have to read them

12
00:00:27,429 --> 00:00:25,680
verbatim and this still isn't an

13
00:00:30,070 --> 00:00:27,439
exhaustive list he's been recognized

14
00:00:32,950 --> 00:00:30,080
with the edward r murrow awards peabody

15
00:00:35,670 --> 00:00:32,960
awards and dozens of pacific southwest

16
00:00:38,069 --> 00:00:35,680
regional emmy awards column kelleher is

17
00:00:40,470 --> 00:00:38,079
a biochemist with more than 15 years of

18
00:00:42,549 --> 00:00:40,480
research in cell and molecular biology

19
00:00:44,869 --> 00:00:42,559
for the past eight years calm has been

20
00:00:46,869 --> 00:00:44,879
using forensic science methodologies to

21
00:00:48,950 --> 00:00:46,879
investigate scientific anomalies

22
00:00:50,389 --> 00:00:48,960
associated with the phenomenon click on

23
00:00:52,310 --> 00:00:50,399
the time stamp in the description if

24
00:00:54,470 --> 00:00:52,320
you'd like to skip this intro my name is

25
00:00:56,229 --> 00:00:54,480
kirchey mungle i'm a torontonian

26
00:00:58,549 --> 00:00:56,239
filmmaker with a background in

27
00:01:01,029 --> 00:00:58,559
mathematical physics dedicated to the

28
00:01:02,790 --> 00:01:01,039
explication of the variegated terrain of

29
00:01:04,710 --> 00:01:02,800
theories of everything from a

30
00:01:06,710 --> 00:01:04,720
theoretical physics perspective but as

31
00:01:08,469 --> 00:01:06,720
well as analyzing consciousness and

32
00:01:10,630 --> 00:01:08,479
seeing its potential connection to

33
00:01:12,550 --> 00:01:10,640
fundamental reality whatever that is

34
00:01:15,109 --> 00:01:12,560
essentially this channel is dedicated to

35
00:01:17,109 --> 00:01:15,119
exploring the under nature of reality

36
00:01:18,789 --> 00:01:17,119
the constitutional laws that govern it

37
00:01:21,109 --> 00:01:18,799
provided those laws exist at all and are

38
00:01:23,030 --> 00:01:21,119
even noble to us if you enjoy witnessing

39
00:01:25,830 --> 00:01:23,040
and engaging with others on the topics

40
00:01:27,990 --> 00:01:25,840
of psychology consciousness physics etc

41
00:01:29,670 --> 00:01:28,000
the channels themes then do consider

42
00:01:31,590 --> 00:01:29,680
going to the discord and the subreddit

43
00:01:33,429 --> 00:01:31,600
which are linked in the description

44
00:01:35,109 --> 00:01:33,439
there's also a link to the patreon that

45
00:01:36,870 --> 00:01:35,119
is patreon.com

46
00:01:38,950 --> 00:01:36,880
kurchimongo if you'd like to support

47
00:01:40,789 --> 00:01:38,960
this podcast as the patrons and the

48
00:01:43,190 --> 00:01:40,799
sponsors are the only reasons that i'm

49
00:01:45,109 --> 00:01:43,200
able to have podcasts of this quality

50
00:01:47,350 --> 00:01:45,119
and this depth given that i can do this

51
00:01:49,190 --> 00:01:47,360
now full time thanks to both the patrons

52
00:01:51,510 --> 00:01:49,200
and the sponsors support speaking of

53
00:01:53,429 --> 00:01:51,520
sponsors there are two the first sponsor

54
00:01:54,870 --> 00:01:53,439
is brilliant during the winter break i

55
00:01:56,710 --> 00:01:54,880
decided to brush up on some of the

56
00:01:58,870 --> 00:01:56,720
fundamentals of physics particularly

57
00:02:00,789 --> 00:01:58,880
with regard to information theory as i'd

58
00:02:02,389 --> 00:02:00,799
like to interview chiara marletto on

59
00:02:04,069 --> 00:02:02,399
constructor theory which is heavily

60
00:02:05,749 --> 00:02:04,079
based in information theory now

61
00:02:07,109 --> 00:02:05,759
information theory is predicated on

62
00:02:09,430 --> 00:02:07,119
entropy at least there's a fundamental

63
00:02:11,190 --> 00:02:09,440
formula for entropy so i ended up taking

64
00:02:13,270 --> 00:02:11,200
the brilliant course i challenged myself

65
00:02:15,270 --> 00:02:13,280
to do one lesson per day and i took the

66
00:02:17,589 --> 00:02:15,280
course's random variable distributions

67
00:02:19,190 --> 00:02:17,599
and knowledge slash uncertainty what i

68
00:02:20,949 --> 00:02:19,200
loved is that despite knowing the

69
00:02:23,190 --> 00:02:20,959
formula for entropy which is essentially

70
00:02:25,110 --> 00:02:23,200
hammered into as an undergraduate it

71
00:02:26,949 --> 00:02:25,120
seems like it comes down from the sky

72
00:02:28,630 --> 00:02:26,959
arbitrarily and with brilliant for the

73
00:02:30,229 --> 00:02:28,640
first time i was able to see how the

74
00:02:32,550 --> 00:02:30,239
formula for entropy which you're seeing

75
00:02:34,229 --> 00:02:32,560
right now is actually extremely natural

76
00:02:36,229 --> 00:02:34,239
and it'd be strange to define it in any

77
00:02:37,910 --> 00:02:36,239
other manner there are plenty of courses

78
00:02:39,190 --> 00:02:37,920
and you can even learn group theory

79
00:02:40,630 --> 00:02:39,200
which is what's being referenced when

80
00:02:43,509 --> 00:02:40,640
you hear that the standard model is

81
00:02:45,110 --> 00:02:43,519
predicated on u1 cross su-2 cross su-3

82
00:02:47,190 --> 00:02:45,120
those are lead groups continuous lead

83
00:02:49,910 --> 00:02:47,200
groups visit brilliant.org

84
00:02:51,589 --> 00:02:49,920
tow t-o-e to get 20 off an annual

85
00:02:53,750 --> 00:02:51,599
subscription and i recommend that you

86
00:02:55,509 --> 00:02:53,760
don't stop before four lessons i think

87
00:02:57,270 --> 00:02:55,519
you'll be greatly surprised at the ease

88
00:02:59,190 --> 00:02:57,280
at which you can now comprehend subjects

89
00:03:01,910 --> 00:02:59,200
you previously had a difficult time

90
00:03:03,990 --> 00:03:01,920
grocking the second sponsor is algo now

91
00:03:05,990 --> 00:03:04,000
algo is an end-to-end supply chain

92
00:03:08,070 --> 00:03:06,000
optimization software company with

93
00:03:10,070 --> 00:03:08,080
software that helps business users

94
00:03:12,229 --> 00:03:10,080
optimize sales and operations planning

95
00:03:14,149 --> 00:03:12,239
to avoid stockouts reduce return and

96
00:03:16,550 --> 00:03:14,159
inventory write-downs while reducing

97
00:03:19,750 --> 00:03:16,560
inventory investment it's a supply chain

98
00:03:21,830 --> 00:03:19,760
ai that drives smart roi headed by amjad

99
00:03:24,149 --> 00:03:21,840
hussein who's been a huge supporter of

100
00:03:27,190 --> 00:03:24,159
this podcast since near its inception in

101
00:03:29,110 --> 00:03:27,200
fact amjad has his own podcast on ai and

102
00:03:31,030 --> 00:03:29,120
consciousness and business growth and if

103
00:03:32,869 --> 00:03:31,040
you'd like to support the tow podcast

104
00:03:34,630 --> 00:03:32,879
then visit the link in the description

105
00:03:36,630 --> 00:03:34,640
to see amjad's podcast because

106
00:03:39,110 --> 00:03:36,640
subscribing to him or at least visiting

107
00:03:41,990 --> 00:03:39,120
supports the toe podcast indirectly

108
00:03:44,309 --> 00:03:42,000
thank you and enjoy i'm also not feeling

109
00:03:47,190 --> 00:03:44,319
terribly well so if i am not at my

110
00:03:49,190 --> 00:03:47,200
tip-top shape please forgive me okay

111
00:03:52,229 --> 00:03:49,200
it seems like we're live great great

112
00:03:54,070 --> 00:03:52,239
great okay welcome column welcome george

113
00:03:56,149 --> 00:03:54,080
thank you so much for being here

114
00:03:58,070 --> 00:03:56,159
thank you

115
00:03:59,589 --> 00:03:58,080
man okay this is such a pleasure i've

116
00:04:00,789 --> 00:03:59,599
been looking forward to this and many

117
00:04:02,149 --> 00:04:00,799
many many people have been looking

118
00:04:03,589 --> 00:04:02,159
forward to this so we'll get straight to

119
00:04:05,830 --> 00:04:03,599
the questions forget about intros i'll

120
00:04:07,589 --> 00:04:05,840
edit in an intro later

121
00:04:08,949 --> 00:04:07,599
george this one's directed to you why

122
00:04:10,789 --> 00:04:08,959
don't you explain to the people who are

123
00:04:12,949 --> 00:04:10,799
unacquainted what the hitchhiker effect

124
00:04:14,949 --> 00:04:12,959
is

125
00:04:16,870 --> 00:04:14,959
we don't exactly know and i think a

126
00:04:19,110 --> 00:04:16,880
hitchhiker effect should probably be

127
00:04:21,590 --> 00:04:19,120
plural not just a singular form of the

128
00:04:24,150 --> 00:04:21,600
term because there are many effects

129
00:04:25,430 --> 00:04:24,160
the bass team first noticed it in a

130
00:04:27,590 --> 00:04:25,440
correlation of things that happened to

131
00:04:29,350 --> 00:04:27,600
people who visited skinwalker ranch in

132
00:04:30,790 --> 00:04:29,360
particular there were at least five

133
00:04:32,469 --> 00:04:30,800
maybe six

134
00:04:35,510 --> 00:04:32,479
intelligence officials who during the

135
00:04:37,990 --> 00:04:35,520
awsap program uh overseen and funded by

136
00:04:39,590 --> 00:04:38,000
the defense intelligence agency these

137
00:04:41,110 --> 00:04:39,600
intelligence officials visited

138
00:04:43,350 --> 00:04:41,120
skinwalker ranch

139
00:04:45,030 --> 00:04:43,360
had an encounter with something unusual

140
00:04:47,189 --> 00:04:45,040
and then took something home with it we

141
00:04:49,189 --> 00:04:47,199
don't know exactly how it works we don't

142
00:04:50,790 --> 00:04:49,199
know why it happens but it's happened

143
00:04:53,270 --> 00:04:50,800
over and over again it not only happened

144
00:04:55,430 --> 00:04:53,280
to those people during the awsap bass

145
00:04:57,990 --> 00:04:55,440
period but it happened to people who had

146
00:04:59,909 --> 00:04:58,000
visited the ranch uh during the nids era

147
00:05:02,230 --> 00:04:59,919
and and even before then where people

148
00:05:05,510 --> 00:05:02,240
would go to this property encounter

149
00:05:07,350 --> 00:05:05,520
unusual phenomena ufos whatever and then

150
00:05:11,510 --> 00:05:07,360
they would go home and they were visited

151
00:05:13,990 --> 00:05:11,520
at their home by orbs by craft by crypto

152
00:05:15,670 --> 00:05:14,000
type beings poltergeist type activity

153
00:05:17,830 --> 00:05:15,680
broke out in their homes in one

154
00:05:20,310 --> 00:05:17,840
particular instance that we describe in

155
00:05:22,070 --> 00:05:20,320
the book there were these very seasoned

156
00:05:24,870 --> 00:05:22,080
intelligence officials

157
00:05:26,469 --> 00:05:24,880
who as part of the bass asap program

158
00:05:28,150 --> 00:05:26,479
went to the ranch to check it out for

159
00:05:29,909 --> 00:05:28,160
themselves they're walking during the in

160
00:05:32,710 --> 00:05:29,919
the middle homestead

161
00:05:35,029 --> 00:05:32,720
at night it's cold and suddenly gets

162
00:05:36,830 --> 00:05:35,039
much colder they hit a cold spot where

163
00:05:39,430 --> 00:05:36,840
it goes the temperature drops

164
00:05:41,189 --> 00:05:39,440
dramatically in a matter of seconds and

165
00:05:42,629 --> 00:05:41,199
they were sort of on high alert in fact

166
00:05:43,749 --> 00:05:42,639
these guys were on high alert the whole

167
00:05:45,670 --> 00:05:43,759
time they were on the ranch because

168
00:05:48,070 --> 00:05:45,680
they'd read and heard about it

169
00:05:50,310 --> 00:05:48,080
and uh they encountered some sort of a

170
00:05:52,469 --> 00:05:50,320
an intelligence that had a sort of a

171
00:05:54,550 --> 00:05:52,479
menacing presence it sort of froze them

172
00:05:56,469 --> 00:05:54,560
in their tracks they backed off and

173
00:05:58,469 --> 00:05:56,479
later when they went home they had an

174
00:06:01,029 --> 00:05:58,479
eruption of paranormal activity in their

175
00:06:02,710 --> 00:06:01,039
homes it is and generally the way it

176
00:06:03,670 --> 00:06:02,720
works is it spreads to their family

177
00:06:08,550 --> 00:06:03,680
members

178
00:06:11,029 --> 00:06:08,560
these things ahead of time the one

179
00:06:12,230 --> 00:06:11,039
character in our book axelrod not his

180
00:06:14,070 --> 00:06:12,240
real name

181
00:06:15,510 --> 00:06:14,080
we had to change that at the direction

182
00:06:17,830 --> 00:06:15,520
of the pentagon when we submitted the

183
00:06:19,749 --> 00:06:17,840
manuscript he had this explosion of

184
00:06:23,029 --> 00:06:19,759
activity in his home that was seen by

185
00:06:25,749 --> 00:06:23,039
his wife she saw this

186
00:06:27,590 --> 00:06:25,759
standing on two legs a wolf creature a

187
00:06:29,110 --> 00:06:27,600
wolf standing in her yard

188
00:06:30,550 --> 00:06:29,120
its paws

189
00:06:33,029 --> 00:06:30,560
crossed like this

190
00:06:34,390 --> 00:06:33,039
leaning on a tree staring back at her a

191
00:06:36,309 --> 00:06:34,400
couple of days later she didn't tell

192
00:06:38,790 --> 00:06:36,319
anybody about it a couple days later her

193
00:06:40,469 --> 00:06:38,800
kids see it they scream this thing runs

194
00:06:42,550 --> 00:06:40,479
off down the street they can see it's

195
00:06:44,230 --> 00:06:42,560
it's running on two legs

196
00:06:45,749 --> 00:06:44,240
it's kicking up leaves

197
00:06:47,110 --> 00:06:45,759
uh and they didn't know what the hell to

198
00:06:49,510 --> 00:06:47,120
think about it but there were other

199
00:06:51,510 --> 00:06:49,520
things that happened in the home beings

200
00:06:53,350 --> 00:06:51,520
uh shadowy figures seen in the home

201
00:06:55,270 --> 00:06:53,360
things moving around on their own their

202
00:06:57,029 --> 00:06:55,280
pet had been moved they found their dog

203
00:06:59,029 --> 00:06:57,039
up on the roof one day all kinds of

204
00:07:01,430 --> 00:06:59,039
trickster type activity and then it

205
00:07:02,629 --> 00:07:01,440
spread from the kids to their friends in

206
00:07:04,710 --> 00:07:02,639
the neighborhood

207
00:07:07,110 --> 00:07:04,720
uh that has happened a bunch of times it

208
00:07:08,870 --> 00:07:07,120
happened there was a female agent who we

209
00:07:10,950 --> 00:07:08,880
did detail in the book

210
00:07:12,150 --> 00:07:10,960
a very seasoned battle-hardened

211
00:07:13,909 --> 00:07:12,160
professional

212
00:07:14,950 --> 00:07:13,919
who encountered something with column

213
00:07:16,309 --> 00:07:14,960
and he can tell you about it they

214
00:07:18,309 --> 00:07:16,319
encountered some kind of a creature a

215
00:07:20,309 --> 00:07:18,319
crypto creature that people have dubbed

216
00:07:22,629 --> 00:07:20,319
the dino beaver again in the middle

217
00:07:23,589 --> 00:07:22,639
homestead this woman when she goes back

218
00:07:25,350 --> 00:07:23,599
home

219
00:07:27,510 --> 00:07:25,360
is an immediate explosion of what you

220
00:07:29,749 --> 00:07:27,520
call poltergeist type activity not

221
00:07:31,510 --> 00:07:29,759
saying it is poltergeist is just similar

222
00:07:33,830 --> 00:07:31,520
to that kind of activity that's been

223
00:07:36,629 --> 00:07:33,840
reported over the decades by poltergeist

224
00:07:38,950 --> 00:07:36,639
researchers uh her in her home

225
00:07:40,629 --> 00:07:38,960
a wine bottle flies across the room one

226
00:07:42,790 --> 00:07:40,639
from one side of the room smashes on the

227
00:07:44,790 --> 00:07:42,800
wall on the other side there are beings

228
00:07:46,870 --> 00:07:44,800
that she sees and at the side of her bed

229
00:07:49,110 --> 00:07:46,880
things moving around in her home it was

230
00:07:51,350 --> 00:07:49,120
so dramatic that her roommate who was

231
00:07:53,589 --> 00:07:51,360
her fiance moved out ended that

232
00:07:56,070 --> 00:07:53,599
relationship this activity has continued

233
00:07:57,670 --> 00:07:56,080
for years um colin will tell you it's

234
00:07:59,189 --> 00:07:57,680
happened to pretty much all of us who've

235
00:08:01,189 --> 00:07:59,199
spent a lot of time on the ranch

236
00:08:03,589 --> 00:08:01,199
including me i've never seen anything on

237
00:08:05,589 --> 00:08:03,599
skinwalker ranch but my wife has

238
00:08:07,189 --> 00:08:05,599
experienced things at my home column's

239
00:08:09,589 --> 00:08:07,199
wife has experienced things in their

240
00:08:11,670 --> 00:08:09,599
home bob bigelow's wife experienced

241
00:08:13,909 --> 00:08:11,680
things in their home some of it is

242
00:08:15,670 --> 00:08:13,919
benign and interesting and some of it is

243
00:08:16,629 --> 00:08:15,680
downright scary we don't know why it

244
00:08:18,629 --> 00:08:16,639
happens

245
00:08:20,550 --> 00:08:18,639
but column with this biology background

246
00:08:22,150 --> 00:08:20,560
can explain better about sort of the

247
00:08:24,150 --> 00:08:22,160
effect of how it spreads it's like a

248
00:08:26,070 --> 00:08:24,160
virus you mentioned it's benign and

249
00:08:28,390 --> 00:08:26,080
sometimes deleterious is any of it

250
00:08:30,390 --> 00:08:28,400
positive

251
00:08:32,070 --> 00:08:30,400
not that i know of uh maybe column has

252
00:08:33,909 --> 00:08:32,080
heard about that i mean it's positive in

253
00:08:35,430 --> 00:08:33,919
the sense so wow i got to see something

254
00:08:37,589 --> 00:08:35,440
really strange there

255
00:08:38,949 --> 00:08:37,599
it's kind of kind of thrilling my wife

256
00:08:41,350 --> 00:08:38,959
the first time something happened at our

257
00:08:42,790 --> 00:08:41,360
home and i i tried to make this happen

258
00:08:44,389 --> 00:08:42,800
for a long time before i knew about the

259
00:08:46,870 --> 00:08:44,399
hitchhiker effect i would bring things

260
00:08:49,269 --> 00:08:46,880
home from skinwalker ranch to my house

261
00:08:51,509 --> 00:08:49,279
try to engage whatever it was bits of

262
00:08:53,430 --> 00:08:51,519
rocks and scrap and things taken from

263
00:08:55,269 --> 00:08:53,440
the homesteads little tiny bits and

264
00:08:56,630 --> 00:08:55,279
pieces to try to get it going and

265
00:08:59,750 --> 00:08:56,640
finally it happened and it wasn't

266
00:09:02,310 --> 00:08:59,760
pleasant my wife saw these blue orbs uh

267
00:09:03,829 --> 00:09:02,320
floating over our our uh our house at

268
00:09:05,910 --> 00:09:03,839
night she called me to come up and see

269
00:09:07,430 --> 00:09:05,920
him by time i got there they were gone

270
00:09:10,389 --> 00:09:07,440
and then there was an experience in our

271
00:09:12,310 --> 00:09:10,399
bedroom where this uh this thing came in

272
00:09:13,670 --> 00:09:12,320
i'm not going to go into a lot of detail

273
00:09:15,430 --> 00:09:13,680
on that but it was a very frightening

274
00:09:18,070 --> 00:09:15,440
experience for her unpleasant and she

275
00:09:19,750 --> 00:09:18,080
didn't want it to happen again well um

276
00:09:23,030 --> 00:09:19,760
you know the interesting thing about the

277
00:09:25,910 --> 00:09:23,040
uh hitchhiker effect is that it is

278
00:09:28,630 --> 00:09:25,920
very very reproducible you know george

279
00:09:31,190 --> 00:09:28,640
george said that you know back in the

280
00:09:34,150 --> 00:09:31,200
even in the 90s the knits people

281
00:09:36,710 --> 00:09:34,160
were experiencing this effect

282
00:09:37,670 --> 00:09:36,720
but in terms of reproducibility

283
00:09:41,430 --> 00:09:37,680
um

284
00:09:44,949 --> 00:09:41,440
we know that uh going into between the

285
00:09:47,110 --> 00:09:44,959
net zero which ended really in 2003 and

286
00:09:51,030 --> 00:09:47,120
the past era the assap era which

287
00:09:53,829 --> 00:09:51,040
happened really beginning in 2008-2000

288
00:09:55,829 --> 00:09:53,839
multiple security officers were deployed

289
00:09:56,949 --> 00:09:55,839
on the uh on the skidmarker ranch

290
00:09:59,110 --> 00:09:56,959
property

291
00:10:01,190 --> 00:09:59,120
a lot of those people we've personally

292
00:10:03,110 --> 00:10:01,200
interviewed about a dozen of them and a

293
00:10:05,269 --> 00:10:03,120
lot of those people have brought quote

294
00:10:08,150 --> 00:10:05,279
unquote brought something home same kind

295
00:10:10,150 --> 00:10:08,160
of thing um poltergeist activity in the

296
00:10:11,030 --> 00:10:10,160
house sometimes they see orbs in the

297
00:10:14,630 --> 00:10:11,040
house

298
00:10:16,150 --> 00:10:14,640
um and then getting into the asap era

299
00:10:18,870 --> 00:10:16,160
where everything seemed to really

300
00:10:21,350 --> 00:10:18,880
escalate and uh these

301
00:10:23,430 --> 00:10:21,360
these uh five out of five one hundred

302
00:10:26,150 --> 00:10:23,440
percent of the military intelligence

303
00:10:28,550 --> 00:10:26,160
people who were deployed at the request

304
00:10:31,269 --> 00:10:28,560
of the defense intelligence agency onto

305
00:10:33,910 --> 00:10:31,279
skinwalker ranch did as george said

306
00:10:36,630 --> 00:10:33,920
bring something home with them um and

307
00:10:38,630 --> 00:10:36,640
you know even after robert bigelow sold

308
00:10:42,069 --> 00:10:38,640
uh skinwalker ranch

309
00:10:44,550 --> 00:10:42,079
we have a new era of uh brandon fugle

310
00:10:47,110 --> 00:10:44,560
the uh proper property developer from

311
00:10:49,590 --> 00:10:47,120
utah purchased the ranch he installed a

312
00:10:53,030 --> 00:10:49,600
team on the property and lo and behold

313
00:10:54,870 --> 00:10:53,040
we have another set of instances of the

314
00:10:56,550 --> 00:10:54,880
hitchhiker effect

315
00:10:58,350 --> 00:10:56,560
and remember the people who went on

316
00:11:02,069 --> 00:10:58,360
skinwalker ranch in

317
00:11:04,230 --> 00:11:02,079
2016 were very very skeptical and they

318
00:11:06,870 --> 00:11:04,240
were saying this is all you know this is

319
00:11:07,990 --> 00:11:06,880
not absolutely you know this is all

320
00:11:10,069 --> 00:11:08,000
fantasy

321
00:11:11,910 --> 00:11:10,079
and then stuff started erupting in their

322
00:11:14,710 --> 00:11:11,920
homes they brought something home with

323
00:11:16,470 --> 00:11:14,720
them and multiple instances so in terms

324
00:11:19,990 --> 00:11:16,480
of reproducibility

325
00:11:21,910 --> 00:11:20,000
the hitchhiker effect has continuously

326
00:11:25,350 --> 00:11:21,920
affected people

327
00:11:27,509 --> 00:11:25,360
for that we know of for about 25 years

328
00:11:29,750 --> 00:11:27,519
it may be longer on skin marker ranch

329
00:11:33,269 --> 00:11:29,760
and the second point i wanted to make

330
00:11:34,870 --> 00:11:33,279
was that it is not only skinwalker ranch

331
00:11:38,230 --> 00:11:34,880
it is not sort of

332
00:11:40,550 --> 00:11:38,240
only happening on skinwalker ranch but a

333
00:11:42,389 --> 00:11:40,560
lot of ufo

334
00:11:45,190 --> 00:11:42,399
activity

335
00:11:47,750 --> 00:11:45,200
does seem to give rise to the skinwalker

336
00:11:49,990 --> 00:11:47,760
or the uh the hitchhiker effect uh for

337
00:11:53,110 --> 00:11:50,000
people who have never been on skinwalker

338
00:11:54,949 --> 00:11:53,120
ranch and just interact with the the ufo

339
00:11:57,350 --> 00:11:54,959
phenomenon they

340
00:12:00,310 --> 00:11:57,360
themselves in some cases i'm not saying

341
00:12:02,550 --> 00:12:00,320
in all cases but in some cases and

342
00:12:04,389 --> 00:12:02,560
mostly where we have the

343
00:12:07,990 --> 00:12:04,399
luxury of being able to study these

344
00:12:10,470 --> 00:12:08,000
people over many months or many years um

345
00:12:13,430 --> 00:12:10,480
a lot of these people um

346
00:12:16,069 --> 00:12:13,440
you know uh report elements of the

347
00:12:18,069 --> 00:12:16,079
hitchhiker effect you know it's kind of

348
00:12:20,790 --> 00:12:18,079
ironic but going all the way back to

349
00:12:23,030 --> 00:12:20,800
1947 kenneth arnold

350
00:12:25,030 --> 00:12:23,040
when he saw those nine

351
00:12:26,150 --> 00:12:25,040
objects in the sky over the cascade

352
00:12:29,430 --> 00:12:26,160
mountains

353
00:12:32,470 --> 00:12:29,440
uh on june june of 1947.

354
00:12:35,190 --> 00:12:32,480
it's interesting long after he died

355
00:12:35,990 --> 00:12:35,200
his daughter went on a radio show she

356
00:12:37,590 --> 00:12:36,000
was

357
00:12:39,910 --> 00:12:37,600
talking about writing a book about his

358
00:12:43,990 --> 00:12:39,920
life but she started talking about

359
00:12:46,310 --> 00:12:44,000
seeing orbs in the in the arnold home uh

360
00:12:48,949 --> 00:12:46,320
so uh experience various poltergeist

361
00:12:52,389 --> 00:12:48,959
effects uh even kenneth arnold himself

362
00:12:54,710 --> 00:12:52,399
in his book um talks about uh

363
00:12:57,990 --> 00:12:54,720
you know some really weird happenings

364
00:13:02,150 --> 00:12:58,000
that were happening um after the uh june

365
00:13:04,629 --> 00:13:02,160
24 1947. i'm not unambiguously tying

366
00:13:06,629 --> 00:13:04,639
what happened to kenneth arnold to some

367
00:13:09,110 --> 00:13:06,639
form of the hitchhiker effect but i'm

368
00:13:12,389 --> 00:13:09,120
saying that this effect is not just a

369
00:13:14,710 --> 00:13:12,399
skinwalker ranch specific effect it

370
00:13:17,670 --> 00:13:14,720
happens on a much broader scale

371
00:13:19,509 --> 00:13:17,680
you've been researching in this area for

372
00:13:21,509 --> 00:13:19,519
decades or at least plenty of plenty of

373
00:13:24,150 --> 00:13:21,519
years what piece of evidence do you find

374
00:13:25,829 --> 00:13:24,160
most striking most remarkable for

375
00:13:28,389 --> 00:13:25,839
whatever reason so one could be because

376
00:13:31,110 --> 00:13:28,399
it's incontrovertible evidence toward

377
00:13:33,990 --> 00:13:31,120
the existence of x or y or it led to

378
00:13:36,230 --> 00:13:34,000
some new research area

379
00:13:39,829 --> 00:13:36,240
um i think one of the most remarkable

380
00:13:41,990 --> 00:13:39,839
things that uh we found during the asap

381
00:13:45,350 --> 00:13:42,000
program and and again

382
00:13:49,190 --> 00:13:45,360
uh the osap program uh was a 24-month

383
00:13:50,870 --> 00:13:49,200
program that started in 2008 and ended

384
00:13:53,030 --> 00:13:50,880
in 2010

385
00:13:55,750 --> 00:13:53,040
but you know for the first time we had a

386
00:13:58,389 --> 00:13:55,760
large team we had about 50 people who

387
00:14:01,990 --> 00:13:58,399
were employed full-time at awesome and

388
00:14:04,150 --> 00:14:02,000
then we had 22 million dollars allocated

389
00:14:06,069 --> 00:14:04,160
through the defense intelligence agency

390
00:14:09,269 --> 00:14:06,079
for a two-year period so

391
00:14:12,550 --> 00:14:09,279
it's very rare in the ufo uh field to

392
00:14:15,430 --> 00:14:12,560
have the luxury of resources and being

393
00:14:17,430 --> 00:14:15,440
able to study people over long periods

394
00:14:19,590 --> 00:14:17,440
of time after you know they've

395
00:14:21,590 --> 00:14:19,600
encountered ufos so i guess one of the

396
00:14:24,550 --> 00:14:21,600
most remarkable sort of

397
00:14:26,389 --> 00:14:24,560
um discoveries that we made during the

398
00:14:28,949 --> 00:14:26,399
asap program was

399
00:14:31,990 --> 00:14:28,959
the intense medical effects

400
00:14:33,670 --> 00:14:32,000
that that uh that some of these

401
00:14:34,710 --> 00:14:33,680
uh ufo

402
00:14:36,069 --> 00:14:34,720
um

403
00:14:39,030 --> 00:14:36,079
cases

404
00:14:41,350 --> 00:14:39,040
cause in in in some people i'll give you

405
00:14:43,430 --> 00:14:41,360
an example um

406
00:14:46,629 --> 00:14:43,440
one of the one of the sentinel cases

407
00:14:48,949 --> 00:14:46,639
that we actually investigated over

408
00:14:51,750 --> 00:14:48,959
about a year actually and and it went

409
00:14:53,990 --> 00:14:51,760
into almost a two-year investigation

410
00:14:55,990 --> 00:14:54,000
was that this biotechnologist and his

411
00:14:58,550 --> 00:14:56,000
daughter were driving towards bend

412
00:14:59,829 --> 00:14:58,560
oregon in their in their vehicle on

413
00:15:03,110 --> 00:14:59,839
their way home

414
00:15:04,389 --> 00:15:03,120
and the daughter notices three small

415
00:15:06,710 --> 00:15:04,399
ufos

416
00:15:09,910 --> 00:15:06,720
uh bluish colored that were darting

417
00:15:12,230 --> 00:15:09,920
around in the field beside them

418
00:15:14,150 --> 00:15:12,240
once she noticed them they immediately

419
00:15:15,350 --> 00:15:14,160
made a beeline for the vehicle as they

420
00:15:17,670 --> 00:15:15,360
were driving

421
00:15:20,389 --> 00:15:17,680
and uh one of them went right across the

422
00:15:23,509 --> 00:15:20,399
windshield one of them went came into

423
00:15:25,350 --> 00:15:23,519
the car and and went right across uh

424
00:15:27,910 --> 00:15:25,360
both the in their field of view went

425
00:15:30,230 --> 00:15:27,920
right across the uh the windshield

426
00:15:32,150 --> 00:15:30,240
inside the vehicle but the third one

427
00:15:33,910 --> 00:15:32,160
actually went through the left shoulder

428
00:15:37,110 --> 00:15:33,920
of this biotechnologist

429
00:15:39,269 --> 00:15:37,120
went through the upper thoracic cavity

430
00:15:41,590 --> 00:15:39,279
and then emerged from the right shoulder

431
00:15:43,670 --> 00:15:41,600
and then shot out through the uh the

432
00:15:45,910 --> 00:15:43,680
window right in front of the daughter

433
00:15:48,310 --> 00:15:45,920
i mean this was a terrifying episode for

434
00:15:50,949 --> 00:15:48,320
the for the daughter especially uh she

435
00:15:54,389 --> 00:15:50,959
was witnessing all of this

436
00:15:55,829 --> 00:15:54,399
but you know within um i would say 24 to

437
00:15:58,310 --> 00:15:55,839
48 hours

438
00:16:00,629 --> 00:15:58,320
uh this guy woke up the following day

439
00:16:04,150 --> 00:16:00,639
with the let the left side of his face

440
00:16:07,110 --> 00:16:04,160
was all sunburned um his his ear had

441
00:16:09,430 --> 00:16:07,120
started swelling his eye he was started

442
00:16:13,509 --> 00:16:09,440
losing the sight in his left eye

443
00:16:15,910 --> 00:16:13,519
um within a week or or a couple of weeks

444
00:16:17,189 --> 00:16:15,920
he started losing his hair on the left

445
00:16:20,470 --> 00:16:17,199
side of his head

446
00:16:24,629 --> 00:16:20,480
and you know luckily we had on contract

447
00:16:28,230 --> 00:16:24,639
md phd a couple of md phds

448
00:16:31,030 --> 00:16:28,240
um really sort of as as people who could

449
00:16:33,590 --> 00:16:31,040
get deep into medical investigations and

450
00:16:36,470 --> 00:16:33,600
look at medical injuries so we deployed

451
00:16:37,350 --> 00:16:36,480
one of these people uh you know on this

452
00:16:40,230 --> 00:16:37,360
case

453
00:16:42,629 --> 00:16:40,240
and he followed he followed this guy

454
00:16:45,430 --> 00:16:42,639
over many many months but um it turned

455
00:16:48,230 --> 00:16:45,440
out that um a few months after this uh

456
00:16:51,590 --> 00:16:48,240
this event had happened um he came down

457
00:16:54,870 --> 00:16:51,600
with a rare form of ductal carcinoma

458
00:16:57,030 --> 00:16:54,880
that luckily was not metastatic so it

459
00:16:59,430 --> 00:16:57,040
did not metastasize

460
00:17:01,590 --> 00:16:59,440
and over a two-year period went through

461
00:17:02,629 --> 00:17:01,600
a lot of a lot of health

462
00:17:04,470 --> 00:17:02,639
issues

463
00:17:06,870 --> 00:17:04,480
but in terms of being able to document

464
00:17:09,110 --> 00:17:06,880
all of that we were very very fortunate

465
00:17:10,150 --> 00:17:09,120
that we had access to blood samples

466
00:17:12,630 --> 00:17:10,160
taken

467
00:17:14,230 --> 00:17:12,640
from this guy before the incident and

468
00:17:15,590 --> 00:17:14,240
then there were multiple blood samples

469
00:17:17,510 --> 00:17:15,600
taken

470
00:17:19,750 --> 00:17:17,520
after the incident

471
00:17:22,710 --> 00:17:19,760
so we were able to

472
00:17:25,590 --> 00:17:22,720
piece together a medical forensic sort

473
00:17:28,630 --> 00:17:25,600
of picture of what had happened

474
00:17:31,029 --> 00:17:28,640
before and uh and after this incident

475
00:17:33,750 --> 00:17:31,039
and we could document you know

476
00:17:37,110 --> 00:17:33,760
rises and falls of various immune immune

477
00:17:39,110 --> 00:17:37,120
system parameters within this guy uh we

478
00:17:42,230 --> 00:17:39,120
we we saw that there were dramatic

479
00:17:45,110 --> 00:17:42,240
changes in neutrophil lymphocyte ratios

480
00:17:47,110 --> 00:17:45,120
over time and you know this was for from

481
00:17:49,750 --> 00:17:47,120
a an awesome

482
00:17:51,669 --> 00:17:49,760
ufo investigation point of view we think

483
00:17:53,110 --> 00:17:51,679
this was one of the sentinel cases

484
00:17:56,230 --> 00:17:53,120
because it

485
00:17:59,029 --> 00:17:56,240
we we had resources and we were able to

486
00:18:01,669 --> 00:17:59,039
we had the luxury of following this guy

487
00:18:03,830 --> 00:18:01,679
over a year and a half to two years uh

488
00:18:06,070 --> 00:18:03,840
after the incident and as i said we had

489
00:18:08,789 --> 00:18:06,080
blood samples taken before the incident

490
00:18:11,510 --> 00:18:08,799
so we were actually able to

491
00:18:14,789 --> 00:18:11,520
postulate about cause and effect and the

492
00:18:17,110 --> 00:18:14,799
sort of the dramatic increase in adverse

493
00:18:18,070 --> 00:18:17,120
health symptoms that this guy had

494
00:18:21,110 --> 00:18:18,080
uh

495
00:18:23,190 --> 00:18:21,120
suffered um we were able to say with

496
00:18:25,909 --> 00:18:23,200
reasonable confidence that he suffered

497
00:18:28,789 --> 00:18:25,919
pretty well all of those after the uh

498
00:18:30,789 --> 00:18:28,799
close encounter with this uh small blue

499
00:18:32,950 --> 00:18:30,799
orb um so

500
00:18:36,070 --> 00:18:32,960
that that's that was the case and we had

501
00:18:39,750 --> 00:18:36,080
uh several other cases that uh

502
00:18:40,630 --> 00:18:39,760
bass ossop encountered that sort of um

503
00:18:43,029 --> 00:18:40,640
you know

504
00:18:44,950 --> 00:18:43,039
looked at the medical injury aspect and

505
00:18:46,630 --> 00:18:44,960
that was one of the things that really

506
00:18:49,350 --> 00:18:46,640
surprised me

507
00:18:52,390 --> 00:18:49,360
during the mis the niz era we did not

508
00:18:54,630 --> 00:18:52,400
encounter too many of those cases um you

509
00:18:58,230 --> 00:18:54,640
know we were all the time databasing

510
00:19:01,669 --> 00:18:58,240
cases from um you know we had about 1

511
00:19:04,950 --> 00:19:01,679
800 separate ufo investigations under

512
00:19:08,870 --> 00:19:04,960
our belt by the time the nids database

513
00:19:11,510 --> 00:19:08,880
uh went on ice which was about 2003

514
00:19:14,470 --> 00:19:11,520
but we never saw in in terms of boots in

515
00:19:16,710 --> 00:19:14,480
the ground investigations of ufo effects

516
00:19:20,789 --> 00:19:16,720
we never saw the sort of level of

517
00:19:22,789 --> 00:19:20,799
medical injury uh that we saw sort of

518
00:19:25,029 --> 00:19:22,799
you know up close and personal with a

519
00:19:27,110 --> 00:19:25,039
few of these cases so i guess that's one

520
00:19:29,190 --> 00:19:27,120
of the things that really surprised me

521
00:19:31,270 --> 00:19:29,200
from the awesome

522
00:19:32,789 --> 00:19:31,280
series of investigations

523
00:19:34,630 --> 00:19:32,799
did that person feel any burning

524
00:19:37,029 --> 00:19:34,640
sensation or any sensation at all when

525
00:19:39,669 --> 00:19:37,039
the orb went through him well he he

526
00:19:41,750 --> 00:19:39,679
actually did feel a sort of really weird

527
00:19:44,630 --> 00:19:41,760
sort of uncomfortable

528
00:19:48,270 --> 00:19:44,640
um it wasn't painful or or

529
00:19:51,270 --> 00:19:48,280
anything he he felt sort of um

530
00:19:52,950 --> 00:19:51,280
discombobulated and sort of out of sorts

531
00:19:55,990 --> 00:19:52,960
as this thing was traveling through his

532
00:19:58,310 --> 00:19:56,000
body it was almost like um a large it

533
00:20:00,710 --> 00:19:58,320
felt like a very very large bubble that

534
00:20:02,710 --> 00:20:00,720
was moving through his body he actually

535
00:20:04,549 --> 00:20:02,720
did feel the movement but he didn't feel

536
00:20:06,390 --> 00:20:04,559
any pain or he didn't feel any

537
00:20:08,470 --> 00:20:06,400
discomfort he just felt

538
00:20:11,430 --> 00:20:08,480
i i would say it was sort of a version

539
00:20:13,909 --> 00:20:11,440
of mild vertigo

540
00:20:15,510 --> 00:20:13,919
okay george when we first connected you

541
00:20:17,909 --> 00:20:15,520
mentioned to me that there's plenty of

542
00:20:20,390 --> 00:20:17,919
meat on the bone so to speak in the book

543
00:20:22,549 --> 00:20:20,400
skinwalkers at the pentagon which the

544
00:20:24,470 --> 00:20:22,559
link is in the description for those who

545
00:20:25,990 --> 00:20:24,480
would like to check that out now what

546
00:20:27,190 --> 00:20:26,000
are you referring to what specifically

547
00:20:29,190 --> 00:20:27,200
are you referring to that you feel like

548
00:20:31,909 --> 00:20:29,200
people in the media either on podcast

549
00:20:33,750 --> 00:20:31,919
etc haven't picked up on and why do you

550
00:20:35,029 --> 00:20:33,760
think it's so important those pieces of

551
00:20:37,909 --> 00:20:35,039
information this question also comes

552
00:20:39,669 --> 00:20:37,919
from dan from that ufo podcast

553
00:20:40,950 --> 00:20:39,679
yeah well there there are a lot of ways

554
00:20:43,190 --> 00:20:40,960
i could answer that i'll give you sort

555
00:20:45,270 --> 00:20:43,200
of some bullet points one is the

556
00:20:47,669 --> 00:20:45,280
documenting the difference between osap

557
00:20:49,830 --> 00:20:47,679
and atef we're all glad that atip that

558
00:20:52,950 --> 00:20:49,840
story hit the new york times in december

559
00:20:55,350 --> 00:20:52,960
2017 uh but there were multiple errors

560
00:20:58,390 --> 00:20:55,360
of fact in that story that they sort of

561
00:21:00,630 --> 00:20:58,400
conflated awsap with atep awesap is the

562
00:21:03,110 --> 00:21:00,640
program that got 22 million dollars

563
00:21:05,430 --> 00:21:03,120
awesapp was authorized and overseen by

564
00:21:07,590 --> 00:21:05,440
the defense intelligence agency it was

565
00:21:09,669 --> 00:21:07,600
not a small operation as column said it

566
00:21:11,350 --> 00:21:09,679
had 50 full-time employees

567
00:21:13,430 --> 00:21:11,360
working around the clock and then

568
00:21:15,430 --> 00:21:13,440
hundreds of subcontractors it was huge

569
00:21:17,830 --> 00:21:15,440
as far as we know we believe there are

570
00:21:20,070 --> 00:21:17,840
other ufo programs but as far as we know

571
00:21:21,669 --> 00:21:20,080
it was the largest such endeavor ever

572
00:21:24,149 --> 00:21:21,679
funded by the us government bigger than

573
00:21:27,830 --> 00:21:24,159
project blue book uh bigger than uh than

574
00:21:30,070 --> 00:21:27,840
the a than atep by many magnitudes and

575
00:21:32,950 --> 00:21:30,080
um i don't think people get how just how

576
00:21:34,149 --> 00:21:32,960
big it was atip grew out of bossap not

577
00:21:36,149 --> 00:21:34,159
the other way around there were two

578
00:21:38,630 --> 00:21:36,159
distinct efforts and this was huge

579
00:21:40,310 --> 00:21:38,640
number two is the database the database

580
00:21:42,630 --> 00:21:40,320
that was created by these guys is

581
00:21:45,350 --> 00:21:42,640
enormous it's more than 200 000

582
00:21:47,190 --> 00:21:45,360
different ufo cases it incorporates uh

583
00:21:49,750 --> 00:21:47,200
not only project blue book and u.s

584
00:21:51,990 --> 00:21:49,760
government files but also private files

585
00:21:54,230 --> 00:21:52,000
compiled by nids the files of other

586
00:21:56,470 --> 00:21:54,240
governments including brazil

587
00:21:58,789 --> 00:21:56,480
documents reports case files things of

588
00:22:00,390 --> 00:21:58,799
that sort it was enormous and i don't

589
00:22:02,549 --> 00:22:00,400
think there's anything like it anywhere

590
00:22:04,950 --> 00:22:02,559
else in the world and had ossap been

591
00:22:06,950 --> 00:22:04,960
allowed to continue one of the plans was

592
00:22:09,350 --> 00:22:06,960
as envisioned by jacques valet who

593
00:22:11,270 --> 00:22:09,360
created this database or data warehouse

594
00:22:14,630 --> 00:22:11,280
was to put ai

595
00:22:17,510 --> 00:22:14,640
on top of it as a way to filter and

596
00:22:19,510 --> 00:22:17,520
collate uh different cases to look for

597
00:22:21,190 --> 00:22:19,520
patterns if that had been allowed to

598
00:22:23,190 --> 00:22:21,200
continue if ossap had been allowed to

599
00:22:24,549 --> 00:22:23,200
continue we'd be way further down the

600
00:22:26,549 --> 00:22:24,559
road in understanding what this

601
00:22:28,310 --> 00:22:26,559
phenomena is as it is we don't

602
00:22:30,070 --> 00:22:28,320
understand it at all we don't know where

603
00:22:31,669 --> 00:22:30,080
it's from why it's here what its

604
00:22:33,510 --> 00:22:31,679
interest is in us we don't know what the

605
00:22:35,430 --> 00:22:33,520
answers to any of those big questions

606
00:22:36,630 --> 00:22:35,440
but it is possible it it they could have

607
00:22:37,830 --> 00:22:36,640
been achieved they haven't been allowed

608
00:22:40,950 --> 00:22:37,840
to continue

609
00:22:42,950 --> 00:22:40,960
also the specific cases um

610
00:22:45,110 --> 00:22:42,960
tic tac is probably the most famous ufo

611
00:22:47,270 --> 00:22:45,120
case in the world that was an

612
00:22:49,590 --> 00:22:47,280
awesome project they launched that

613
00:22:52,230 --> 00:22:49,600
investigation and although we've seen

614
00:22:54,710 --> 00:22:52,240
bits and pieces of what asap was able to

615
00:22:56,549 --> 00:22:54,720
determine about the tic-tac the bulk of

616
00:22:58,630 --> 00:22:56,559
that information the analysis that was

617
00:23:00,630 --> 00:22:58,640
done with a specific kind of software

618
00:23:02,390 --> 00:23:00,640
has never been made public column could

619
00:23:04,390 --> 00:23:02,400
probably address that a lot better than

620
00:23:06,310 --> 00:23:04,400
i can but let me finish this list and

621
00:23:08,390 --> 00:23:06,320
then there are individual cases things

622
00:23:10,230 --> 00:23:08,400
that happened at skinwalker ranch crypto

623
00:23:11,830 --> 00:23:10,240
creatures the different kinds of crap

624
00:23:13,990 --> 00:23:11,840
that were investigated seen and

625
00:23:15,669 --> 00:23:14,000
investigated by asap at the ranch and

626
00:23:17,830 --> 00:23:15,679
then other places around the country

627
00:23:20,230 --> 00:23:17,840
there's a case in georgia that was

628
00:23:22,630 --> 00:23:20,240
investigated that is a mind-boggling

629
00:23:24,549 --> 00:23:22,640
there's a a men in black type instance

630
00:23:25,990 --> 00:23:24,559
that happened in kentucky that column

631
00:23:27,270 --> 00:23:26,000
can elaborate on there's a southern

632
00:23:29,029 --> 00:23:27,280
california

633
00:23:31,590 --> 00:23:29,039
incident in ventura county where an

634
00:23:33,990 --> 00:23:31,600
entire family had these experiences over

635
00:23:37,110 --> 00:23:34,000
a number of days saw alien beings got

636
00:23:38,789 --> 00:23:37,120
him on camera in fact and um

637
00:23:40,470 --> 00:23:38,799
it had a kind of a trick ending but

638
00:23:42,630 --> 00:23:40,480
those kind of cases i don't think they

639
00:23:46,070 --> 00:23:42,640
have have registered with the general

640
00:23:48,870 --> 00:23:46,080
public or the ufo public at all

641
00:23:51,669 --> 00:23:48,880
colin do you want to add to that

642
00:23:54,710 --> 00:23:51,679
um yeah i i think uh

643
00:23:56,070 --> 00:23:54,720
exactly what uh what george put out is

644
00:23:58,630 --> 00:23:56,080
is the case and

645
00:24:01,430 --> 00:23:58,640
i guess you know we can be sort of

646
00:24:05,110 --> 00:24:01,440
blamed in some way because

647
00:24:07,750 --> 00:24:05,120
we sort of set out to write a fairly

648
00:24:10,950 --> 00:24:07,760
uh a fairly dense book

649
00:24:13,909 --> 00:24:10,960
in uh in in skin workers at the pentagon

650
00:24:15,990 --> 00:24:13,919
and we decided from the get-go that we

651
00:24:18,390 --> 00:24:16,000
we could have added a hundred pages of

652
00:24:21,830 --> 00:24:18,400
filler if we had so chosen but we

653
00:24:25,190 --> 00:24:21,840
decided against that and and so

654
00:24:27,350 --> 00:24:25,200
i think the book is is pretty dense um

655
00:24:29,110 --> 00:24:27,360
there's not a lot of fluff in there in

656
00:24:29,990 --> 00:24:29,120
terms of sort of

657
00:24:32,390 --> 00:24:30,000
um

658
00:24:35,269 --> 00:24:32,400
you know going going beyond what what

659
00:24:37,269 --> 00:24:35,279
the facts were so um i think i think a

660
00:24:39,350 --> 00:24:37,279
lot of people because of that and i

661
00:24:41,190 --> 00:24:39,360
don't blame them personally but

662
00:24:42,710 --> 00:24:41,200
a lot of people have missed some of the

663
00:24:45,430 --> 00:24:42,720
things that are

664
00:24:47,669 --> 00:24:45,440
uh that are in the book and and uh i

665
00:24:50,470 --> 00:24:47,679
think it does probably demand uh more

666
00:24:53,190 --> 00:24:50,480
than one reading uh and you know a lot

667
00:24:56,549 --> 00:24:53,200
of people i've noticed on social media

668
00:24:58,950 --> 00:24:56,559
and and etc have focused and sort of

669
00:25:01,750 --> 00:24:58,960
said that the asap program

670
00:25:03,830 --> 00:25:01,760
was only focused on skinwalker ranch and

671
00:25:07,029 --> 00:25:03,840
it was only focused on

672
00:25:09,430 --> 00:25:07,039
exploring ghosts and what have we

673
00:25:12,789 --> 00:25:09,440
but the fact is you know we submitted

674
00:25:14,390 --> 00:25:12,799
104 separate reports to the defense

675
00:25:17,029 --> 00:25:14,400
intelligence agency

676
00:25:20,310 --> 00:25:17,039
as separate deliverables uh during the

677
00:25:22,630 --> 00:25:20,320
asap program and only a minority of

678
00:25:25,350 --> 00:25:22,640
those uh those reports were focused on

679
00:25:28,950 --> 00:25:25,360
skinwalker ranch the remainder of the

680
00:25:31,909 --> 00:25:28,960
reports focused on you know we we we did

681
00:25:34,710 --> 00:25:31,919
a um a pretty extensive

682
00:25:36,950 --> 00:25:34,720
um engineering analysis of the tic tac

683
00:25:39,430 --> 00:25:36,960
incident and we compiled a report

684
00:25:41,750 --> 00:25:39,440
based on uh ansys

685
00:25:44,710 --> 00:25:41,760
uh multiphysics analysis of the of the

686
00:25:47,110 --> 00:25:44,720
tic tac case um computational fluid

687
00:25:50,149 --> 00:25:47,120
dynamics analysis

688
00:25:51,750 --> 00:25:50,159
that was a 140 plus page report that was

689
00:25:55,029 --> 00:25:51,760
submitted to the defense intelligence

690
00:25:58,310 --> 00:25:55,039
agency that was completely separate from

691
00:26:01,269 --> 00:25:58,320
the report that axelrod submitted on his

692
00:26:03,510 --> 00:26:01,279
investigation and his investigation of

693
00:26:05,990 --> 00:26:03,520
the tic tac effect so

694
00:26:08,230 --> 00:26:06,000
we also had a lot of um

695
00:26:12,549 --> 00:26:08,240
investigations of

696
00:26:14,390 --> 00:26:12,559
um things like uh the russian uh ufo

697
00:26:17,510 --> 00:26:14,400
papers that george knapp brought back

698
00:26:20,630 --> 00:26:17,520
from uh from russia that was completely

699
00:26:22,870 --> 00:26:20,640
independent of skinwalker ranch and uh

700
00:26:26,310 --> 00:26:22,880
we we employed three separate russian

701
00:26:28,710 --> 00:26:26,320
translators we got a lot of the uh the

702
00:26:31,750 --> 00:26:28,720
the documentation we got all of the

703
00:26:34,549 --> 00:26:31,760
documentation translated we had analysts

704
00:26:37,510 --> 00:26:34,559
take a look at it and we i mean we were

705
00:26:40,870 --> 00:26:37,520
it was a mind-boggling array of an

706
00:26:44,870 --> 00:26:40,880
organizational chart in uh russia's

707
00:26:46,789 --> 00:26:44,880
slash soviet union in the early 1990s

708
00:26:49,510 --> 00:26:46,799
which showed that the

709
00:26:52,549 --> 00:26:49,520
the soviet union had this massive

710
00:26:53,750 --> 00:26:52,559
uh program that was focused on gathering

711
00:26:56,950 --> 00:26:53,760
ufo

712
00:26:58,789 --> 00:26:56,960
data nationwide at a national level

713
00:27:00,789 --> 00:26:58,799
government departments were were

714
00:27:02,070 --> 00:27:00,799
involved as well as university

715
00:27:03,430 --> 00:27:02,080
departments

716
00:27:06,590 --> 00:27:03,440
involved

717
00:27:09,990 --> 00:27:06,600
there was also this military unit called

718
00:27:12,710 --> 00:27:10,000
73790 that was involved and it seemed to

719
00:27:14,710 --> 00:27:12,720
be the sort of the linchpin of the

720
00:27:18,390 --> 00:27:14,720
entire investigation and you know

721
00:27:20,549 --> 00:27:18,400
they're being whispers about unit 73790

722
00:27:23,590 --> 00:27:20,559
as being sort of fundamental to the

723
00:27:25,029 --> 00:27:23,600
soviet union and later the russian focus

724
00:27:25,830 --> 00:27:25,039
on the uab

725
00:27:29,510 --> 00:27:25,840
uh

726
00:27:31,990 --> 00:27:29,520
but you know senator reid when he when

727
00:27:35,029 --> 00:27:32,000
he uh was instrumental in forming this

728
00:27:37,990 --> 00:27:35,039
program one of the really sort of

729
00:27:40,870 --> 00:27:38,000
alarming things in his mind was the

730
00:27:43,750 --> 00:27:40,880
prospect that another country would be

731
00:27:45,830 --> 00:27:43,760
gaining traction on the united states

732
00:27:47,110 --> 00:27:45,840
and you know he had in mind russia and

733
00:27:49,510 --> 00:27:47,120
china

734
00:27:51,909 --> 00:27:49,520
but other countries also that they were

735
00:27:54,789 --> 00:27:51,919
gaining a technological edge because

736
00:27:56,789 --> 00:27:54,799
they were actually taking the ufo topic

737
00:27:59,110 --> 00:27:56,799
a lot more seriously

738
00:28:01,750 --> 00:27:59,120
um in in these countries than they were

739
00:28:03,269 --> 00:28:01,760
in the united states uh you know we have

740
00:28:05,350 --> 00:28:03,279
publicly we know

741
00:28:07,990 --> 00:28:05,360
we had project sign we had project

742
00:28:10,389 --> 00:28:08,000
grudge we had project blue book and then

743
00:28:13,110 --> 00:28:10,399
sort of laterally we had this very large

744
00:28:16,630 --> 00:28:13,120
awesome program which unfortunately was

745
00:28:18,630 --> 00:28:16,640
prematurely truncated after two years

746
00:28:21,510 --> 00:28:18,640
just as it was really sort of getting

747
00:28:24,230 --> 00:28:21,520
going and then we had this very small

748
00:28:26,950 --> 00:28:24,240
effort in the pentagon called atip you

749
00:28:29,430 --> 00:28:26,960
know so so in terms of

750
00:28:31,909 --> 00:28:29,440
the publicly available knowledge of how

751
00:28:35,269 --> 00:28:31,919
seriously the united states government

752
00:28:37,350 --> 00:28:35,279
was taking the ufo phenomenon um the the

753
00:28:40,470 --> 00:28:37,360
thread three documents that asap

754
00:28:42,710 --> 00:28:40,480
translated and analyzed shows pretty

755
00:28:45,510 --> 00:28:42,720
unequivocally that the

756
00:28:50,710 --> 00:28:45,520
soviet union slash russia had a much

757
00:28:54,549 --> 00:28:52,630
okay let's talk about the hitchhiker

758
00:28:55,669 --> 00:28:54,559
effect for a little while this question

759
00:28:56,630 --> 00:28:55,679
comes from

760
00:29:00,310 --> 00:28:56,640
arthur

761
00:29:02,710 --> 00:29:00,320
mispronouncing that well forgive me

762
00:29:04,549 --> 00:29:02,720
i believe this comes from twitter and

763
00:29:06,549 --> 00:29:04,559
so i'm going to paraphrase this it seems

764
00:29:08,310 --> 00:29:06,559
like the hitchhiker effect is akin to an

765
00:29:10,789 --> 00:29:08,320
a contagion

766
00:29:13,110 --> 00:29:10,799
and the way that i understand it is that

767
00:29:15,110 --> 00:29:13,120
it must be that it decreases with

768
00:29:16,870 --> 00:29:15,120
severity the more that it's spread from

769
00:29:19,029 --> 00:29:16,880
person to person otherwise we'd all have

770
00:29:20,630 --> 00:29:19,039
it because we're connected so firstly

771
00:29:22,149 --> 00:29:20,640
does it decrease have you found any

772
00:29:24,149 --> 00:29:22,159
evidence that it decreases when it

773
00:29:26,710 --> 00:29:24,159
spreads from person to person well i

774
00:29:30,310 --> 00:29:26,720
would say sort of the poster child for

775
00:29:33,909 --> 00:29:30,320
the uh the hitchhiker effect in terms of

776
00:29:34,870 --> 00:29:33,919
our ability to study it over over time

777
00:29:36,710 --> 00:29:34,880
i think

778
00:29:38,710 --> 00:29:36,720
your listener that's a very good

779
00:29:41,669 --> 00:29:38,720
question actually because

780
00:29:44,549 --> 00:29:41,679
um it does have a lot of implications

781
00:29:47,669 --> 00:29:44,559
um but the poster poster child for this

782
00:29:49,669 --> 00:29:47,679
was the axelrod family so axelrod was

783
00:29:53,269 --> 00:29:49,679
the sort of the primary

784
00:29:56,149 --> 00:29:53,279
primary infectee on on the onskin walker

785
00:29:59,350 --> 00:29:56,159
ranch he flew 2 000 miles back to his

786
00:30:01,909 --> 00:29:59,360
home in in virginia

787
00:30:03,830 --> 00:30:01,919
within a few weeks

788
00:30:06,630 --> 00:30:03,840
both his sons and his wife had

789
00:30:09,350 --> 00:30:06,640
experienced these dramatic effects that

790
00:30:11,190 --> 00:30:09,360
george has alluded to

791
00:30:13,909 --> 00:30:11,200
at the same time

792
00:30:16,230 --> 00:30:13,919
neighbors started uh reporting

793
00:30:19,430 --> 00:30:16,240
um this was like a few months later

794
00:30:21,110 --> 00:30:19,440
neighbors started reporting eruptions of

795
00:30:23,990 --> 00:30:21,120
unusual effects

796
00:30:25,350 --> 00:30:24,000
as school kids that the axle rods

797
00:30:28,549 --> 00:30:25,360
uh knew

798
00:30:30,310 --> 00:30:28,559
uh the axle rod kids knew uh also

799
00:30:32,789 --> 00:30:30,320
started reporting weird creatures

800
00:30:35,909 --> 00:30:32,799
outside their bedrooms and remember

801
00:30:38,470 --> 00:30:35,919
axelrod the axelrod family

802
00:30:40,389 --> 00:30:38,480
that you know the guy in the axelrod

803
00:30:41,590 --> 00:30:40,399
family had top secret security

804
00:30:45,110 --> 00:30:41,600
clearances

805
00:30:46,870 --> 00:30:45,120
um you know was a very high level navy

806
00:30:48,470 --> 00:30:46,880
um

807
00:30:50,870 --> 00:30:48,480
person so

808
00:30:53,590 --> 00:30:50,880
the family were well used to keeping

809
00:30:55,909 --> 00:30:53,600
secrets they were not sort of con sort

810
00:30:58,070 --> 00:30:55,919
of the the kind of kids that went to

811
00:31:00,230 --> 00:30:58,080
school and blabbed about what their you

812
00:31:03,110 --> 00:31:00,240
know their family was doing so they kept

813
00:31:06,149 --> 00:31:03,120
very quiet about this whole thing so

814
00:31:09,750 --> 00:31:06,159
bottom line is that there was a spread

815
00:31:12,789 --> 00:31:09,760
out out into the neighbors and out

816
00:31:15,350 --> 00:31:12,799
out into the school kids

817
00:31:19,350 --> 00:31:15,360
the the real question is how far this

818
00:31:22,070 --> 00:31:19,360
actually spread and and we do not have a

819
00:31:25,590 --> 00:31:22,080
full grasp on exactly how far it's

820
00:31:27,830 --> 00:31:25,600
spread but um i think the questioner is

821
00:31:28,710 --> 00:31:27,840
is really correct because

822
00:31:30,710 --> 00:31:28,720
um

823
00:31:32,389 --> 00:31:30,720
we probably would have picked up

824
00:31:36,070 --> 00:31:32,399
additional cases

825
00:31:38,549 --> 00:31:36,080
um if the uh if this had spread you know

826
00:31:41,669 --> 00:31:38,559
into large areas around the neighbor the

827
00:31:43,990 --> 00:31:41,679
neighborhood uh as as confront you know

828
00:31:44,630 --> 00:31:44,000
as opposed to what we actually did pick

829
00:31:46,870 --> 00:31:44,640
up

830
00:31:47,590 --> 00:31:46,880
in other cases we know that it's spread

831
00:31:51,350 --> 00:31:47,600
through

832
00:31:55,110 --> 00:31:51,360
co-workers

833
00:31:57,909 --> 00:31:55,120
um also uh we're subject to this but we

834
00:31:58,870 --> 00:31:57,919
do not have i would say the n is too

835
00:32:01,350 --> 00:31:58,880
small

836
00:32:04,789 --> 00:32:01,360
um and again this comes back to the fact

837
00:32:08,710 --> 00:32:04,799
that the asap program was prematurely

838
00:32:11,029 --> 00:32:08,720
truncated and you know the original plan

839
00:32:13,509 --> 00:32:11,039
was to have a five-year program

840
00:32:14,389 --> 00:32:13,519
we believe if asap had been allowed to

841
00:32:17,669 --> 00:32:14,399
continue

842
00:32:20,230 --> 00:32:17,679
for the full five years with you know 50

843
00:32:23,110 --> 00:32:20,240
plus full-time employees we would have

844
00:32:25,750 --> 00:32:23,120
made a lot of inroads into answering the

845
00:32:27,509 --> 00:32:25,760
kind of questions about how far the

846
00:32:28,710 --> 00:32:27,519
hitchhiker effect

847
00:32:30,549 --> 00:32:28,720
extends

848
00:32:33,909 --> 00:32:30,559
um you know because

849
00:32:35,110 --> 00:32:33,919
my one of my backgrounds is in virology

850
00:32:36,870 --> 00:32:35,120
um

851
00:32:39,029 --> 00:32:36,880
and sort of it's it's pretty obvious

852
00:32:43,110 --> 00:32:39,039
from the coronavirus

853
00:32:46,310 --> 00:32:43,120
update everybody is familiar with the r0

854
00:32:51,029 --> 00:32:46,320
concept and the ability of a virus to

855
00:32:53,990 --> 00:32:51,039
uh to infect new hosts so um i the the

856
00:32:56,789 --> 00:32:54,000
the epidemiological analysis of the

857
00:32:57,669 --> 00:32:56,799
hitchhiker effect is crying out to be

858
00:33:01,110 --> 00:32:57,679
done

859
00:33:03,669 --> 00:33:01,120
um if there was a follow-up program uh

860
00:33:05,990 --> 00:33:03,679
for the uh of for awesome that could

861
00:33:08,389 --> 00:33:06,000
document additional cases of the

862
00:33:10,310 --> 00:33:08,399
hitchhiker effect right now we have

863
00:33:14,230 --> 00:33:10,320
probably between two and three dozen

864
00:33:17,750 --> 00:33:14,240
cases um of of the hitchhiker effect um

865
00:33:19,590 --> 00:33:17,760
over the last 20 to 25 years but you

866
00:33:23,509 --> 00:33:19,600
know we need an awful lot more than that

867
00:33:26,070 --> 00:33:23,519
and start in in terms of um documenting

868
00:33:28,870 --> 00:33:26,080
uh the extent of this effect but you

869
00:33:30,070 --> 00:33:28,880
know the tools of epidemiological

870
00:33:32,389 --> 00:33:30,080
analysis

871
00:33:35,830 --> 00:33:32,399
um and modeling are are sort of they're

872
00:33:39,029 --> 00:33:35,840
widespread every other lab

873
00:33:41,750 --> 00:33:39,039
that studies coronavirus has you know

874
00:33:42,870 --> 00:33:41,760
epidemiological modeling

875
00:33:45,029 --> 00:33:42,880
you know

876
00:33:48,070 --> 00:33:45,039
resources at their disposal so this

877
00:33:52,789 --> 00:33:48,080
would be a very easy project to uh

878
00:33:55,830 --> 00:33:52,799
extend all we need is additional cases

879
00:33:57,509 --> 00:33:55,840
george do you have any comments on that

880
00:33:59,110 --> 00:33:57,519
no i just i agree that it was a great

881
00:34:01,669 --> 00:33:59,120
question i haven't really considered it

882
00:34:03,190 --> 00:34:01,679
i know that for us my wife and i we

883
00:34:04,789 --> 00:34:03,200
don't think it to spread any further

884
00:34:06,389 --> 00:34:04,799
than that of course we

885
00:34:08,869 --> 00:34:06,399
we have had no reports from people that

886
00:34:10,869 --> 00:34:08,879
we know we don't have children and we

887
00:34:12,230 --> 00:34:10,879
act we last couple of years we've lived

888
00:34:14,230 --> 00:34:12,240
like hermit so i guess that could

889
00:34:15,829 --> 00:34:14,240
explain part of it but that's a great

890
00:34:18,230 --> 00:34:15,839
question is how far it can spread we

891
00:34:19,909 --> 00:34:18,240
don't know the answer to it

892
00:34:21,510 --> 00:34:19,919
see what i'm wondering is what are some

893
00:34:24,230 --> 00:34:21,520
of the other factors so it seems

894
00:34:26,149 --> 00:34:24,240
proximity spatial proximity is a factor

895
00:34:27,589 --> 00:34:26,159
maybe temporal in oh sorry maybe

896
00:34:29,349 --> 00:34:27,599
temporal length so how long am i

897
00:34:31,510 --> 00:34:29,359
spending with someone what are some of

898
00:34:34,950 --> 00:34:31,520
the other factors

899
00:34:37,430 --> 00:34:34,960
well you know one of the um one of the

900
00:34:38,310 --> 00:34:37,440
sort of questions that i've heard asked

901
00:34:43,829 --> 00:34:38,320
is

902
00:34:46,790 --> 00:34:43,839
series of fantasies that happen in these

903
00:34:49,349 --> 00:34:46,800
people's minds etc but you know there

904
00:34:52,470 --> 00:34:49,359
are indications that for example in the

905
00:34:55,109 --> 00:34:52,480
axelrod family that this creature that

906
00:34:58,470 --> 00:34:55,119
uh that the wife saw independently from

907
00:35:01,990 --> 00:34:58,480
the two kids in their home um left

908
00:35:04,870 --> 00:35:02,000
physical tracks so for example you know

909
00:35:07,270 --> 00:35:04,880
uh there were claw marks on the tree

910
00:35:09,829 --> 00:35:07,280
uh when the axelrod family went out to

911
00:35:11,190 --> 00:35:09,839
investigate after the second incident

912
00:35:14,069 --> 00:35:11,200
with the kids

913
00:35:16,630 --> 00:35:14,079
they found all these really obvious claw

914
00:35:19,430 --> 00:35:16,640
marks on the tree right on the exact

915
00:35:22,710 --> 00:35:19,440
tree that this the wife had seen this

916
00:35:24,710 --> 00:35:22,720
creature uh uh leaning against

917
00:35:27,270 --> 00:35:24,720
that's number one they also saw this

918
00:35:30,310 --> 00:35:27,280
creature throwing up a lot of leaves in

919
00:35:34,069 --> 00:35:30,320
the in the backyard as it was running

920
00:35:36,230 --> 00:35:34,079
one of the axelrod kids got besieged by

921
00:35:40,150 --> 00:35:36,240
orbs one night

922
00:35:43,270 --> 00:35:40,160
in 2011 and woke up with physical marks

923
00:35:45,109 --> 00:35:43,280
on his body or a lot of red

924
00:35:46,630 --> 00:35:45,119
welts on his body

925
00:35:49,510 --> 00:35:46,640
it looked like you know frankly it

926
00:35:51,430 --> 00:35:49,520
looked like he had been beaten up um

927
00:35:53,510 --> 00:35:51,440
after a night

928
00:35:54,470 --> 00:35:53,520
in which there was a lot of this quote

929
00:35:57,270 --> 00:35:54,480
unquote

930
00:35:59,990 --> 00:35:57,280
paranormal activity in his house and in

931
00:36:02,470 --> 00:36:00,000
his bedroom but he had physical marks on

932
00:36:05,430 --> 00:36:02,480
his body um and they they actually

933
00:36:07,589 --> 00:36:05,440
brought him to the er just to check him

934
00:36:10,550 --> 00:36:07,599
out and and make sure that he was at

935
00:36:13,430 --> 00:36:10,560
home from school the following day um he

936
00:36:16,470 --> 00:36:13,440
had like intense influenza-like symptoms

937
00:36:18,470 --> 00:36:16,480
after that too but um you know so this

938
00:36:21,589 --> 00:36:18,480
is not only a

939
00:36:24,630 --> 00:36:21,599
um you know a sort of a a mind

940
00:36:26,470 --> 00:36:24,640
phenomenon it does have physical

941
00:36:28,390 --> 00:36:26,480
effects on the environment

942
00:36:30,390 --> 00:36:28,400
so you know it could be both

943
00:36:32,470 --> 00:36:30,400
but um you know i wanted to emphasize

944
00:36:34,950 --> 00:36:32,480
that there are physical effects

945
00:36:37,670 --> 00:36:34,960
um in the environment as well

946
00:36:39,990 --> 00:36:37,680
and just to add to just a reminder the

947
00:36:42,230 --> 00:36:40,000
health consequences for people who come

948
00:36:44,550 --> 00:36:42,240
into contact with these phenomena not

949
00:36:47,910 --> 00:36:44,560
just at the ranch i mean you can look at

950
00:36:50,230 --> 00:36:47,920
the highly publicized cases where navy

951
00:36:51,910 --> 00:36:50,240
pilots have encountered ufos

952
00:36:53,910 --> 00:36:51,920
without being too specific or giving

953
00:36:56,310 --> 00:36:53,920
away personal information you can bet

954
00:36:58,390 --> 00:36:56,320
that there's a chance that some of those

955
00:36:59,510 --> 00:36:58,400
have had these experiences as well when

956
00:37:01,510 --> 00:36:59,520
they go home

957
00:37:03,589 --> 00:37:01,520
it's not just poltergeist type activity

958
00:37:05,510 --> 00:37:03,599
there are severe health consequences

959
00:37:07,510 --> 00:37:05,520
there are diseases perhaps the your

960
00:37:09,670 --> 00:37:07,520
audience kurt will remember recent

961
00:37:12,870 --> 00:37:09,680
comments by dr gary nolan where he

962
00:37:14,390 --> 00:37:12,880
admits he's was contacted by cia to look

963
00:37:16,470 --> 00:37:14,400
into some of these long-term health

964
00:37:19,030 --> 00:37:16,480
consequences for people who encounter

965
00:37:21,190 --> 00:37:19,040
ufos nothing to do with skinwalker ranch

966
00:37:24,069 --> 00:37:21,200
but people who get too close for too

967
00:37:26,310 --> 00:37:24,079
long to ufos have severe medical and

968
00:37:28,390 --> 00:37:26,320
health consequences that last for a long

969
00:37:30,630 --> 00:37:28,400
time we need to understand that you know

970
00:37:32,550 --> 00:37:30,640
we need to understand how that works

971
00:37:34,230 --> 00:37:32,560
it's not just a weird stuff that they

972
00:37:36,390 --> 00:37:34,240
see in their rooms at night it's

973
00:37:38,790 --> 00:37:36,400
diseases and health consequences that

974
00:37:41,349 --> 00:37:38,800
put their lives in danger kit green

975
00:37:45,030 --> 00:37:41,359
wrote a paper about it before

976
00:37:47,670 --> 00:37:45,040
asap for bass it's one of the 38 durds

977
00:37:51,190 --> 00:37:47,680
the reports that were

978
00:37:53,030 --> 00:37:51,200
funded by bass to establish a sort of a

979
00:37:54,790 --> 00:37:53,040
baseline for different aspects of what

980
00:37:56,230 --> 00:37:54,800
assap was going to study

981
00:37:59,750 --> 00:37:56,240
they contacted these different

982
00:38:02,230 --> 00:37:59,760
professionals professors phd's to look

983
00:38:04,710 --> 00:38:02,240
into specific topics

984
00:38:07,589 --> 00:38:04,720
that was related to their own level of

985
00:38:08,870 --> 00:38:07,599
expertise hypersonics for example uh

986
00:38:10,710 --> 00:38:08,880
most of the people who wrote those

987
00:38:13,670 --> 00:38:10,720
papers didn't know they're writing it as

988
00:38:16,150 --> 00:38:13,680
part of a ufo study funded by dia

989
00:38:19,270 --> 00:38:16,160
but they wrote it anyway projecting what

990
00:38:21,190 --> 00:38:19,280
our state of the art knowledge of in a

991
00:38:24,790 --> 00:38:21,200
particular specialty is

992
00:38:26,470 --> 00:38:24,800
projecting it out over uh 40 or 50 years

993
00:38:28,230 --> 00:38:26,480
one of those papers one of those 38

994
00:38:30,310 --> 00:38:28,240
dirds written by dr kick green

995
00:38:31,589 --> 00:38:30,320
neuroscientist was looking at the

996
00:38:33,190 --> 00:38:31,599
medical effects

997
00:38:35,670 --> 00:38:33,200
that work

998
00:38:37,349 --> 00:38:35,680
has inspired dr gary nolan and others to

999
00:38:38,870 --> 00:38:37,359
take it a little bit further and look at

1000
00:38:41,270 --> 00:38:38,880
what are the health consequences of

1001
00:38:43,589 --> 00:38:41,280
coming into proximity contact with the

1002
00:38:45,030 --> 00:38:43,599
ufo

1003
00:38:47,349 --> 00:38:45,040
i should also let you know that the

1004
00:38:48,630 --> 00:38:47,359
audience for this is so variegated it

1005
00:38:50,790 --> 00:38:48,640
runs the gamut from people who are

1006
00:38:52,390 --> 00:38:50,800
extremely familiar with the ufo space to

1007
00:38:53,510 --> 00:38:52,400
people who are more interested in the

1008
00:38:56,150 --> 00:38:53,520
bread and butter of this channel

1009
00:38:57,109 --> 00:38:56,160
theoretical physics math consciousness

1010
00:38:59,430 --> 00:38:57,119
so

1011
00:39:01,270 --> 00:38:59,440
often there are these acronyms and they

1012
00:39:03,510 --> 00:39:01,280
may be unfamiliar to many people so

1013
00:39:04,790 --> 00:39:03,520
please if you have an acronym just a one

1014
00:39:07,270 --> 00:39:04,800
sentence explanation like what is

1015
00:39:09,030 --> 00:39:07,280
awesome dia et cetera when they come up

1016
00:39:10,390 --> 00:39:09,040
i know it's tedious but there's many

1017
00:39:11,829 --> 00:39:10,400
questions about that

1018
00:39:14,230 --> 00:39:11,839
no that's great that's a good idea

1019
00:39:16,470 --> 00:39:14,240
because we get it does get confusing for

1020
00:39:18,069 --> 00:39:16,480
people uh dia is defense intelligence

1021
00:39:21,349 --> 00:39:18,079
agency it's the pentagon's version of

1022
00:39:23,750 --> 00:39:21,359
the cia ossap is the advanced aerospace

1023
00:39:27,190 --> 00:39:23,760
weapons systems application program that

1024
00:39:29,829 --> 00:39:27,200
was the acronym given to the bas study

1025
00:39:31,990 --> 00:39:29,839
i'll get to bass in a second by the dia

1026
00:39:34,230 --> 00:39:32,000
bass is the bigelow advanced aerospace

1027
00:39:36,550 --> 00:39:34,240
space systems it's an offshoot of

1028
00:39:39,510 --> 00:39:36,560
bigelow aerospace it was the contractor

1029
00:39:40,710 --> 00:39:39,520
that got the contract from dia for assat

1030
00:39:42,550 --> 00:39:40,720
if you've got all those acronyms

1031
00:39:44,550 --> 00:39:42,560
straight and then atip

1032
00:39:46,150 --> 00:39:44,560
which is the advanced aerospace weapon

1033
00:39:47,910 --> 00:39:46,160
no advanced aerospace threat

1034
00:39:50,470 --> 00:39:47,920
identification program

1035
00:39:53,270 --> 00:39:50,480
is sort of the successor to asap it grew

1036
00:39:55,510 --> 00:39:53,280
up out of the the ruins of asap so to

1037
00:39:58,390 --> 00:39:55,520
speak that's the program that was uh

1038
00:39:59,349 --> 00:39:58,400
directed by lou elizondo

1039
00:40:00,550 --> 00:39:59,359
okay

1040
00:40:01,510 --> 00:40:00,560
calm your

1041
00:40:02,950 --> 00:40:01,520
column

1042
00:40:04,630 --> 00:40:02,960
do you look like you're

1043
00:40:10,230 --> 00:40:04,640
chomping at the bit

1044
00:40:13,589 --> 00:40:11,750
something that came up on the screen all

1045
00:40:15,190 --> 00:40:13,599
right okay so this question comes from

1046
00:40:17,190 --> 00:40:15,200
kf and by the way if there's someone in

1047
00:40:19,270 --> 00:40:17,200
the audience who wants to work on a

1048
00:40:21,270 --> 00:40:19,280
legend or a compendium about these

1049
00:40:22,870 --> 00:40:21,280
acronyms so that it can be

1050
00:40:25,349 --> 00:40:22,880
so that someone can easily reference

1051
00:40:27,109 --> 00:40:25,359
them then please contact me okay so kf

1052
00:40:28,710 --> 00:40:27,119
has a question a very serious question

1053
00:40:30,470 --> 00:40:28,720
kurt have they considered testing the

1054
00:40:32,950 --> 00:40:30,480
hitchhiker's syndrome with people who

1055
00:40:41,990 --> 00:40:32,960
are blind or have been blind from birth

1056
00:40:46,390 --> 00:40:43,670
yeah you understand the spirit of the

1057
00:40:49,030 --> 00:40:46,400
question yeah yeah i mean

1058
00:40:50,550 --> 00:40:49,040
you would have to sort of uh sign a lot

1059
00:40:53,349 --> 00:40:50,560
of waivers

1060
00:40:55,990 --> 00:40:53,359
um you know and and and uh you know you

1061
00:40:58,870 --> 00:40:56,000
would have a lot of examination

1062
00:41:01,910 --> 00:40:58,880
from the hipaa that's another acronym

1063
00:41:04,309 --> 00:41:01,920
but health insurance portability

1064
00:41:06,230 --> 00:41:04,319
uh whatever it is act

1065
00:41:07,910 --> 00:41:06,240
in other words medical medical

1066
00:41:11,430 --> 00:41:07,920
confidentiality

1067
00:41:14,790 --> 00:41:11,440
um you would also have to make sure

1068
00:41:16,870 --> 00:41:14,800
that you had institutional review board

1069
00:41:18,870 --> 00:41:16,880
uh you know

1070
00:41:21,109 --> 00:41:18,880
check that box too before you got into

1071
00:41:22,069 --> 00:41:21,119
that kind of research because this is

1072
00:41:26,069 --> 00:41:22,079
human

1073
00:41:28,309 --> 00:41:26,079
extremely uh

1074
00:41:30,790 --> 00:41:28,319
tightly controlled by the national

1075
00:41:32,790 --> 00:41:30,800
institutes of health so once you checked

1076
00:41:34,870 --> 00:41:32,800
all those boxes

1077
00:41:37,349 --> 00:41:34,880
and provided you know all of the

1078
00:41:40,309 --> 00:41:37,359
releases have been signed that it is

1079
00:41:43,510 --> 00:41:40,319
theoretically possible to have people uh

1080
00:41:46,470 --> 00:41:43,520
who are blind you know

1081
00:41:49,430 --> 00:41:46,480
all the way across the uh the spectrum

1082
00:41:50,550 --> 00:41:49,440
um there's a there's a whole series of

1083
00:41:52,550 --> 00:41:50,560
studies

1084
00:41:56,390 --> 00:41:52,560
um that were conducted

1085
00:41:57,349 --> 00:41:56,400
uh by a psychiatrist called kenneth ring

1086
00:41:59,829 --> 00:41:57,359
um

1087
00:42:01,829 --> 00:41:59,839
and and he studied actually

1088
00:42:04,309 --> 00:42:01,839
uh these anomalous

1089
00:42:06,710 --> 00:42:04,319
experiences and blind people

1090
00:42:09,910 --> 00:42:06,720
and found that the uh anomalous

1091
00:42:11,990 --> 00:42:09,920
experiences included um consciousness

1092
00:42:13,190 --> 00:42:12,000
related experiences like near-death

1093
00:42:15,190 --> 00:42:13,200
experiences

1094
00:42:17,030 --> 00:42:15,200
and uh found that the

1095
00:42:18,390 --> 00:42:17,040
blind individuals

1096
00:42:20,630 --> 00:42:18,400
uh were

1097
00:42:23,589 --> 00:42:20,640
absolutely equally

1098
00:42:26,870 --> 00:42:23,599
um capable of seeing near-death

1099
00:42:29,910 --> 00:42:26,880
experiences as they were as as you know

1100
00:42:31,910 --> 00:42:29,920
people with with normal sight now that's

1101
00:42:33,030 --> 00:42:31,920
that's quite a leap between what we're

1102
00:42:35,349 --> 00:42:33,040
discussing

1103
00:42:37,349 --> 00:42:35,359
and uh near-death experiences but i'm

1104
00:42:39,109 --> 00:42:37,359
saying that there is precedent for that

1105
00:42:41,750 --> 00:42:39,119
kind of an analysis

1106
00:42:43,510 --> 00:42:41,760
but it does go back to the question of

1107
00:42:45,670 --> 00:42:43,520
how big is the n

1108
00:42:47,510 --> 00:42:45,680
and uh the n is pretty small with the

1109
00:42:50,630 --> 00:42:47,520
data that we have in hand

1110
00:42:53,829 --> 00:42:50,640
really what we want to see i think

1111
00:42:54,710 --> 00:42:53,839
george and i and jim lakatsky is

1112
00:42:55,430 --> 00:42:54,720
um

1113
00:43:05,270 --> 00:42:55,440
a

1114
00:43:08,150 --> 00:43:05,280
to study the ufo problem

1115
00:43:10,150 --> 00:43:08,160
and not just confine it to

1116
00:43:13,109 --> 00:43:10,160
small sort of

1117
00:43:16,069 --> 00:43:13,119
rifle shot type studies that focus only

1118
00:43:18,309 --> 00:43:16,079
on military pilots um once you start

1119
00:43:21,990 --> 00:43:18,319
looking at uh effects

1120
00:43:24,309 --> 00:43:22,000
of these uh ufo encounters on people

1121
00:43:27,510 --> 00:43:24,319
then you start getting into things like

1122
00:43:30,550 --> 00:43:27,520
the hitchhiker effect and we think that

1123
00:43:32,790 --> 00:43:30,560
there is enough rumor and innuendo

1124
00:43:35,510 --> 00:43:32,800
regarding some of the military pilots

1125
00:43:38,710 --> 00:43:35,520
that have encountered uh these these

1126
00:43:41,349 --> 00:43:38,720
ufos to warrant studies that are

1127
00:43:44,309 --> 00:43:41,359
long-term on human effects as well

1128
00:43:47,510 --> 00:43:44,319
including psychological effects but also

1129
00:43:50,550 --> 00:43:47,520
medical effects um and especially over

1130
00:43:53,349 --> 00:43:50,560
long term um you know the

1131
00:43:55,829 --> 00:43:53,359
the old days of ufo investigations

1132
00:43:57,990 --> 00:43:55,839
occurring on people's own time during

1133
00:44:01,030 --> 00:43:58,000
the weekends you know which is sort of

1134
00:44:04,390 --> 00:44:01,040
the classic model of ufo studies uh that

1135
00:44:07,190 --> 00:44:04,400
the sort of weekend warrior model

1136
00:44:09,030 --> 00:44:07,200
that really does not apply in this case

1137
00:44:11,990 --> 00:44:09,040
you've got to have the resources to be

1138
00:44:14,230 --> 00:44:12,000
able to study these people long term and

1139
00:44:17,190 --> 00:44:14,240
i'm talking months or years in some

1140
00:44:19,430 --> 00:44:17,200
cases in order to fully delineate these

1141
00:44:21,349 --> 00:44:19,440
kinds of effects i mean if you go out on

1142
00:44:23,510 --> 00:44:21,359
a weekend and you interview somebody for

1143
00:44:25,270 --> 00:44:23,520
three or four hours you record that

1144
00:44:27,670 --> 00:44:25,280
interview and you go home

1145
00:44:30,390 --> 00:44:27,680
the chances are you will pick up

1146
00:44:33,270 --> 00:44:30,400
only a very small percent of that

1147
00:44:36,390 --> 00:44:33,280
person's ufo experience you'll you'll

1148
00:44:39,190 --> 00:44:36,400
pick up data on ufo parameters

1149
00:44:42,069 --> 00:44:39,200
performance parameters uh how close it

1150
00:44:44,470 --> 00:44:42,079
was how how fast it did right angle

1151
00:44:47,109 --> 00:44:44,480
turns uh what kind of lights it might

1152
00:44:49,270 --> 00:44:47,119
have had and you can try to sort of

1153
00:44:52,470 --> 00:44:49,280
marry that to theoretical physics

1154
00:44:55,750 --> 00:44:52,480
concepts but really what you need to do

1155
00:44:59,030 --> 00:44:55,760
is to do that but also to look at the

1156
00:45:00,230 --> 00:44:59,040
long-term effects uh on humans because

1157
00:45:02,630 --> 00:45:00,240
without

1158
00:45:05,430 --> 00:45:02,640
you know both sides of that equation i

1159
00:45:08,550 --> 00:45:05,440
think you're looking at a very distorted

1160
00:45:12,390 --> 00:45:10,550
okay speaking of physics this question

1161
00:45:14,390 --> 00:45:12,400
comes from mossy moose

1162
00:45:16,150 --> 00:45:14,400
during the asap program and potentially

1163
00:45:17,990 --> 00:45:16,160
continuing into the present day what

1164
00:45:20,550 --> 00:45:18,000
sorts of energy signatures pass through

1165
00:45:22,950 --> 00:45:20,560
the experiencers of uaps and the

1166
00:45:25,270 --> 00:45:22,960
phenomenon in close proximity and is it

1167
00:45:27,190 --> 00:45:25,280
related to neutrinos does this type of

1168
00:45:29,430 --> 00:45:27,200
detectable and measurable energy

1169
00:45:33,270 --> 00:45:29,440
signature play a role in the hitchhiker

1170
00:45:36,790 --> 00:45:35,190
that's a pretty good question

1171
00:45:39,510 --> 00:45:36,800
i'm not a scientist i don't pretend to

1172
00:45:40,790 --> 00:45:39,520
be a scientist column uh that maybe is a

1173
00:45:42,390 --> 00:45:40,800
better question for him and i don't know

1174
00:45:44,230 --> 00:45:42,400
if they ever got were able to get that

1175
00:45:48,069 --> 00:45:44,240
specific so

1176
00:45:49,349 --> 00:45:48,079
well the the only um the only

1177
00:45:51,510 --> 00:45:49,359
i guess

1178
00:45:53,589 --> 00:45:51,520
uh medical effects that we were able to

1179
00:45:56,069 --> 00:45:53,599
document um

1180
00:45:58,950 --> 00:45:56,079
in involved um

1181
00:46:01,270 --> 00:45:58,960
we think some form of potentially

1182
00:46:02,230 --> 00:46:01,280
non-ionizing radiation

1183
00:46:06,630 --> 00:46:02,240
um

1184
00:46:10,069 --> 00:46:06,640
you know there was another case that

1185
00:46:13,109 --> 00:46:10,079
george uh briefly mentioned and that was

1186
00:46:16,630 --> 00:46:13,119
um and this pertains to what i'm talking

1187
00:46:17,510 --> 00:46:16,640
about uh in in in georgia you know this

1188
00:46:22,150 --> 00:46:17,520
guy

1189
00:46:24,470 --> 00:46:22,160
barking outside and this is a case that

1190
00:46:27,030 --> 00:46:24,480
we investigated you know pretty over a

1191
00:46:30,309 --> 00:46:27,040
long period of time but um he went

1192
00:46:31,910 --> 00:46:30,319
outside his his his young boy and a

1193
00:46:33,430 --> 00:46:31,920
couple of neighbors were in a tent in

1194
00:46:35,430 --> 00:46:33,440
their backyard they were kind of in a

1195
00:46:37,990 --> 00:46:35,440
sleepover he went out to check on them

1196
00:46:41,430 --> 00:46:38,000
and check on the dog and right over his

1197
00:46:44,710 --> 00:46:41,440
property or hovering silently was this

1198
00:46:48,069 --> 00:46:44,720
massive black triangle um this large

1199
00:46:49,750 --> 00:46:48,079
black triangle now it was nighttime so

1200
00:46:53,030 --> 00:46:49,760
he couldn't get a good fix but he

1201
00:46:55,589 --> 00:46:53,040
figured it was very very low um he said

1202
00:46:56,390 --> 00:46:55,599
it was massive the size of a a football

1203
00:46:59,829 --> 00:46:56,400
field

1204
00:47:02,150 --> 00:46:59,839
um so it was right over his uh

1205
00:47:05,349 --> 00:47:02,160
his property so we tried taking cell

1206
00:47:07,829 --> 00:47:05,359
phone photos um and you know all that

1207
00:47:10,069 --> 00:47:07,839
came out was just blackness because he

1208
00:47:12,390 --> 00:47:10,079
could see it silhouetted against the sky

1209
00:47:15,109 --> 00:47:12,400
but the resolution of his iphone camera

1210
00:47:17,750 --> 00:47:15,119
uh was was insufficient to pick it up so

1211
00:47:20,470 --> 00:47:17,760
he went back inside and and pulled out

1212
00:47:22,230 --> 00:47:20,480
um he had a very powerful flashlight so

1213
00:47:24,470 --> 00:47:22,240
we went back outside this thing was

1214
00:47:26,710 --> 00:47:24,480
still hovering above him

1215
00:47:29,349 --> 00:47:26,720
so he shone the flashlight up at it to

1216
00:47:31,510 --> 00:47:29,359
see if he could see any any

1217
00:47:32,630 --> 00:47:31,520
features on the underside of this this

1218
00:47:36,710 --> 00:47:32,640
craft

1219
00:47:38,630 --> 00:47:36,720
and almost immediately this a large

1220
00:47:41,349 --> 00:47:38,640
intense blue ray

1221
00:47:44,790 --> 00:47:41,359
uh came from the the front side of the

1222
00:47:47,510 --> 00:47:44,800
triangle and shot right on him and he

1223
00:47:49,430 --> 00:47:47,520
immediately felt you know a lot of heat

1224
00:47:51,589 --> 00:47:49,440
and a lot he was kind of blinded and

1225
00:47:52,950 --> 00:47:51,599
felt a lot of heat he turned around and

1226
00:47:55,829 --> 00:47:52,960
crouched

1227
00:47:58,870 --> 00:47:55,839
away from this but at that stage he felt

1228
00:48:01,270 --> 00:47:58,880
a lot of heat on his neck and his back

1229
00:48:03,910 --> 00:48:01,280
so he got you know he ran inside because

1230
00:48:06,870 --> 00:48:03,920
he you know he felt he felt threatened

1231
00:48:10,309 --> 00:48:06,880
but this blue light was probably a foot

1232
00:48:11,910 --> 00:48:10,319
in diameter and it seemed to be

1233
00:48:15,190 --> 00:48:11,920
instantaneous

1234
00:48:18,309 --> 00:48:15,200
reaction to him shining the flashlight

1235
00:48:20,790 --> 00:48:18,319
at the underside of this object so um

1236
00:48:23,670 --> 00:48:20,800
he looked at it from the window and uh

1237
00:48:25,910 --> 00:48:23,680
it took off at enormous speeds uh

1238
00:48:27,990 --> 00:48:25,920
heading heading you know up

1239
00:48:28,950 --> 00:48:28,000
in the sky and was gone very very

1240
00:48:32,549 --> 00:48:28,960
quickly

1241
00:48:35,190 --> 00:48:32,559
so he went to bed and sort of um

1242
00:48:36,790 --> 00:48:35,200
woke up with a very strong metallic

1243
00:48:40,230 --> 00:48:36,800
taste in his mouth

1244
00:48:43,030 --> 00:48:40,240
um he had a lot of sunburn on the back

1245
00:48:46,829 --> 00:48:43,040
of his neck um he had a headache

1246
00:48:49,270 --> 00:48:46,839
he did not feel well and sort of uh so

1247
00:48:50,549 --> 00:48:49,280
investigations start we were contacted

1248
00:48:53,910 --> 00:48:50,559
as part of the

1249
00:48:56,870 --> 00:48:53,920
uh the bas mufon mufon is the

1250
00:48:59,109 --> 00:48:56,880
acronym for mutual ufo

1251
00:49:03,430 --> 00:49:01,190
yeah uh so so

1252
00:49:05,510 --> 00:49:03,440
uh we were we were contacted via mufon

1253
00:49:09,270 --> 00:49:05,520
about this case so we sent investigators

1254
00:49:11,270 --> 00:49:09,280
out we photographed this guy um he he

1255
00:49:12,549 --> 00:49:11,280
started losing his hair on the back of

1256
00:49:13,990 --> 00:49:12,559
his head

1257
00:49:17,109 --> 00:49:14,000
and we had one of our physician

1258
00:49:18,390 --> 00:49:17,119
scientists go out and visit him and he

1259
00:49:21,510 --> 00:49:18,400
organized

1260
00:49:25,109 --> 00:49:21,520
a set of medical visits to the local

1261
00:49:27,829 --> 00:49:25,119
clinic that documented him over time he

1262
00:49:31,030 --> 00:49:27,839
had a lot of health effects

1263
00:49:33,990 --> 00:49:31,040
he had intense nausea over over this

1264
00:49:37,270 --> 00:49:34,000
whole case and um so

1265
00:49:38,870 --> 00:49:37,280
you know there was indirect evidence not

1266
00:49:41,990 --> 00:49:38,880
direct evidence but from the

1267
00:49:44,150 --> 00:49:42,000
constellation of medical symptoms

1268
00:49:47,349 --> 00:49:44,160
including sort of strong metallic taste

1269
00:49:50,230 --> 00:49:47,359
in his mouth losing hair um intense

1270
00:49:51,670 --> 00:49:50,240
sunburn on his skin uh and and some

1271
00:49:54,069 --> 00:49:51,680
other features

1272
00:49:56,309 --> 00:49:54,079
yeah one of the hypotheses that we came

1273
00:50:01,030 --> 00:49:56,319
up with for this case and for other

1274
00:50:03,190 --> 00:50:01,040
cases was non-ionizing radiation

1275
00:50:05,670 --> 00:50:03,200
but we were never able to get more

1276
00:50:08,470 --> 00:50:05,680
specific than that it was some form of

1277
00:50:10,670 --> 00:50:08,480
electromagnetic radiation and we did not

1278
00:50:12,950 --> 00:50:10,680
we were not able to pinpoint the

1279
00:50:16,630 --> 00:50:12,960
intensity or we were not able to

1280
00:50:19,670 --> 00:50:16,640
pinpoint exact uh wavelength but we

1281
00:50:21,829 --> 00:50:19,680
there was a hypothesis put forward that

1282
00:50:25,750 --> 00:50:21,839
needs to be validated over time in

1283
00:50:29,430 --> 00:50:25,760
future cases that non-ionizing radiation

1284
00:50:32,470 --> 00:50:29,440
um you know was was used on this guy

1285
00:50:35,030 --> 00:50:32,480
there was a whole plethora of other

1286
00:50:37,430 --> 00:50:35,040
strange effects that this guy went

1287
00:50:39,430 --> 00:50:37,440
through um he had all these bizarre

1288
00:50:41,910 --> 00:50:39,440
electronic interference

1289
00:50:43,109 --> 00:50:41,920
uh phenomena that were erupted in his

1290
00:50:45,190 --> 00:50:43,119
home

1291
00:50:49,270 --> 00:50:45,200
he had as i said a lot of medical

1292
00:50:51,670 --> 00:50:49,280
effects a lot of these um tumor tumors

1293
00:50:53,430 --> 00:50:51,680
started growing in his body luckily they

1294
00:50:54,470 --> 00:50:53,440
turned out to be benign and he was

1295
00:50:57,109 --> 00:50:54,480
diagnosed

1296
00:50:59,750 --> 00:50:57,119
with castleman's disease and uh

1297
00:51:02,790 --> 00:50:59,760
eventually after a couple couple or few

1298
00:51:04,790 --> 00:51:02,800
years he got better and uh you know

1299
00:51:07,829 --> 00:51:04,800
pulled out of it but you know there were

1300
00:51:09,270 --> 00:51:07,839
he was besieged by low-flying black

1301
00:51:11,670 --> 00:51:09,280
helicopters

1302
00:51:15,030 --> 00:51:11,680
um you know at one stage which is

1303
00:51:18,069 --> 00:51:15,040
another sort of feature that that is

1304
00:51:19,670 --> 00:51:18,079
associated with the ufo phenomenon but

1305
00:51:22,309 --> 00:51:19,680
why is it featured

1306
00:51:24,309 --> 00:51:22,319
associated with the ufo phenomenon we

1307
00:51:26,870 --> 00:51:24,319
don't have the answer to that but you

1308
00:51:29,109 --> 00:51:26,880
know one of the things that the lessons

1309
00:51:32,710 --> 00:51:29,119
learned from awesome is

1310
00:51:35,109 --> 00:51:32,720
that we think the template is robust

1311
00:51:37,190 --> 00:51:35,119
the template should be repeated

1312
00:51:40,309 --> 00:51:37,200
and it should be extended beyond the

1313
00:51:42,950 --> 00:51:40,319
two-year program so you know

1314
00:51:45,109 --> 00:51:42,960
the bottom line for for the future

1315
00:51:48,390 --> 00:51:45,119
we think for ufo studies

1316
00:51:50,630 --> 00:51:48,400
is to do a five plus year study

1317
00:51:53,750 --> 00:51:50,640
with the kinds of resources that asap

1318
00:51:57,750 --> 00:51:53,760
had and the kinds of um

1319
00:52:01,109 --> 00:51:57,760
personnel that were devoted exclusively

1320
00:52:03,190 --> 00:52:01,119
to investigating the ufo mystery because

1321
00:52:04,710 --> 00:52:03,200
you know as everybody knows as a lot of

1322
00:52:07,190 --> 00:52:04,720
your listeners know

1323
00:52:10,630 --> 00:52:07,200
we've been looking at this um you know

1324
00:52:12,630 --> 00:52:10,640
in the public eye for 75 years that's an

1325
00:52:15,750 --> 00:52:12,640
awful long time to be

1326
00:52:16,549 --> 00:52:15,760
uh wondering what is this phenomenon you

1327
00:52:18,549 --> 00:52:16,559
know

1328
00:52:20,069 --> 00:52:18,559
one of the things that the asap program

1329
00:52:21,750 --> 00:52:20,079
was tasked to do

1330
00:52:24,790 --> 00:52:21,760
was to

1331
00:52:27,270 --> 00:52:24,800
delineate whether or not this phenomenon

1332
00:52:29,910 --> 00:52:27,280
was a threat to the united states and a

1333
00:52:31,510 --> 00:52:29,920
threat to national security

1334
00:52:34,069 --> 00:52:31,520
bottom line is

1335
00:52:35,589 --> 00:52:34,079
you know there are two aspects of of of

1336
00:52:38,309 --> 00:52:35,599
threat analysis

1337
00:52:40,150 --> 00:52:38,319
one is capability and the other the

1338
00:52:41,030 --> 00:52:40,160
other is intent

1339
00:52:44,390 --> 00:52:41,040
so

1340
00:52:48,069 --> 00:52:44,400
part a was capability and we are our

1341
00:52:50,710 --> 00:52:48,079
data warehouse and databases were full

1342
00:52:53,270 --> 00:52:50,720
of instances where we were able to map

1343
00:52:56,150 --> 00:52:53,280
out the capabilities of the ufo

1344
00:53:00,069 --> 00:52:56,160
phenomenon but in terms of intent is a

1345
00:53:02,710 --> 00:53:00,079
really big question mark after 75 years

1346
00:53:06,230 --> 00:53:02,720
of looking at this ufo phenomenon we

1347
00:53:08,150 --> 00:53:06,240
still have no idea regarding uh whether

1348
00:53:10,549 --> 00:53:08,160
or not what the intent or what the

1349
00:53:11,589 --> 00:53:10,559
agenda of this phenomenon is so

1350
00:53:13,349 --> 00:53:11,599
therefore

1351
00:53:16,470 --> 00:53:13,359
our final report to the defense

1352
00:53:18,870 --> 00:53:16,480
intelligence agency we did not say that

1353
00:53:21,030 --> 00:53:18,880
the ufo phenomenon was a threat to

1354
00:53:23,030 --> 00:53:21,040
national security we said it was a

1355
00:53:25,109 --> 00:53:23,040
threat to human health

1356
00:53:27,910 --> 00:53:25,119
and that's a very very different you

1357
00:53:30,549 --> 00:53:27,920
know parsing of that sort of concept

1358
00:53:32,790 --> 00:53:30,559
it's a very very different thing to say

1359
00:53:37,109 --> 00:53:32,800
it's a bad thing for you for people to

1360
00:53:39,910 --> 00:53:37,119
be close to ufos but we were not able to

1361
00:53:42,630 --> 00:53:39,920
to gather enough data to determine

1362
00:53:44,390 --> 00:53:42,640
whether or not this was a threat to

1363
00:53:46,870 --> 00:53:44,400
national security

1364
00:53:49,510 --> 00:53:46,880
i'd like to add kurt if there's one

1365
00:53:51,190 --> 00:53:49,520
underlying message from our book one

1366
00:53:53,430 --> 00:53:51,200
lesson learned

1367
00:53:54,870 --> 00:53:53,440
from the awsap program it's that you

1368
00:53:57,270 --> 00:53:54,880
need to follow the evidence where it

1369
00:54:00,390 --> 00:53:57,280
leads the defense intelligence agency

1370
00:54:03,109 --> 00:54:00,400
crafted this program as a ufo study that

1371
00:54:06,150 --> 00:54:03,119
was its primary focus is on ufos the

1372
00:54:07,910 --> 00:54:06,160
technology whose is it is it a threat

1373
00:54:10,390 --> 00:54:07,920
can we duplicate it can we figure it out

1374
00:54:12,630 --> 00:54:10,400
and duplicate it but it also had and

1375
00:54:14,870 --> 00:54:12,640
everyone at dia and within bass

1376
00:54:16,870 --> 00:54:14,880
understood that it also was going to

1377
00:54:18,630 --> 00:54:16,880
follow the evidence wherever it lit

1378
00:54:21,109 --> 00:54:18,640
since our book came out and some of the

1379
00:54:23,270 --> 00:54:21,119
the details about osap and bass we've

1380
00:54:25,670 --> 00:54:23,280
had a lot of criticism oh gosh that was

1381
00:54:27,750 --> 00:54:25,680
a silly program it was they were ghost

1382
00:54:29,910 --> 00:54:27,760
hunters they were looking at bigfoot all

1383
00:54:32,230 --> 00:54:29,920
these goofy silly topics paranormal

1384
00:54:34,230 --> 00:54:32,240
stuff that's been discredited well that

1385
00:54:36,309 --> 00:54:34,240
was not entirely true

1386
00:54:37,670 --> 00:54:36,319
it was a ufo program to start but they

1387
00:54:39,829 --> 00:54:37,680
followed the evidence where it led and

1388
00:54:41,750 --> 00:54:39,839
it led into some pretty strange areas

1389
00:54:43,750 --> 00:54:41,760
they didn't set out and didn't want to

1390
00:54:45,190 --> 00:54:43,760
study ghosts or poltergeists and we

1391
00:54:47,430 --> 00:54:45,200
don't even know if that's what they were

1392
00:54:49,990 --> 00:54:47,440
studying but they did study the effects

1393
00:54:51,750 --> 00:54:50,000
that were in proximity to ufo events

1394
00:54:53,510 --> 00:54:51,760
followed the evidence where it led and

1395
00:54:56,390 --> 00:54:53,520
it led into some very uncomfortable

1396
00:54:58,870 --> 00:54:56,400
areas the pentagon of course has has

1397
00:55:01,349 --> 00:54:58,880
been a little less than honest with the

1398
00:55:03,910 --> 00:55:01,359
public about its interest in ufos but

1399
00:55:05,990 --> 00:55:03,920
finally as a result of the atep story

1400
00:55:07,670 --> 00:55:06,000
that was in new york times and uh

1401
00:55:09,750 --> 00:55:07,680
testimony from a lot of the people that

1402
00:55:12,150 --> 00:55:09,760
worked with column at awesome

1403
00:55:14,710 --> 00:55:12,160
behind closed doors congress is finally

1404
00:55:16,549 --> 00:55:14,720
interested in the ufo aspect and more

1405
00:55:18,390 --> 00:55:16,559
power to them we're glad that they took

1406
00:55:20,549 --> 00:55:18,400
the trouble to find out about the

1407
00:55:22,630 --> 00:55:20,559
national security implications

1408
00:55:25,109 --> 00:55:22,640
of these ufo encounters over military

1409
00:55:27,589 --> 00:55:25,119
bases if that is the engine that drove

1410
00:55:30,230 --> 00:55:27,599
the interest in a creating a new program

1411
00:55:32,230 --> 00:55:30,240
which they have done great but you can't

1412
00:55:34,950 --> 00:55:32,240
just stop there again the underlying

1413
00:55:36,950 --> 00:55:34,960
message of ossap bass the book that we

1414
00:55:38,950 --> 00:55:36,960
wrote is you have to follow the evidence

1415
00:55:41,349 --> 00:55:38,960
where it leads you cannot solve this

1416
00:55:44,870 --> 00:55:41,359
mystery or these multiple mysteries by

1417
00:55:47,589 --> 00:55:44,880
just looking at military cases at ufos

1418
00:55:49,750 --> 00:55:47,599
that appear over military bases at ufos

1419
00:55:52,549 --> 00:55:49,760
that are picked up on sensors or on

1420
00:55:53,910 --> 00:55:52,559
thermal images like tic tac like gimbal

1421
00:55:56,069 --> 00:55:53,920
you're never going to solve the big

1422
00:55:57,430 --> 00:55:56,079
picture by only looking at that stuff

1423
00:55:59,030 --> 00:55:57,440
you have to follow the evidence where it

1424
00:56:00,829 --> 00:55:59,040
leads and that takes courage and it

1425
00:56:04,309 --> 00:56:00,839
takes some money too

1426
00:56:06,470 --> 00:56:04,319
so when i was speaking to travis walton

1427
00:56:08,470 --> 00:56:06,480
he was of the opinion that some of these

1428
00:56:10,870 --> 00:56:08,480
beings are benevolent and that they

1429
00:56:12,390 --> 00:56:10,880
would cure cancer potentially someone

1430
00:56:14,390 --> 00:56:12,400
else thought this as well i believe her

1431
00:56:17,030 --> 00:56:14,400
name is angeli she believes that they're

1432
00:56:18,549 --> 00:56:17,040
kind bestowing generous helpful it

1433
00:56:19,349 --> 00:56:18,559
doesn't sound like you all believe that

1434
00:56:23,109 --> 00:56:19,359
but

1435
00:56:25,190 --> 00:56:23,119
please comment on that

1436
00:56:27,109 --> 00:56:25,200
well we we don't even know if that's one

1437
00:56:29,030 --> 00:56:27,119
intelligence or multiple maybe there's

1438
00:56:30,870 --> 00:56:29,040
more than one more than one answer maybe

1439
00:56:32,789 --> 00:56:30,880
they're extraterrestrial

1440
00:56:34,230 --> 00:56:32,799
uh maybe they're interdimensional maybe

1441
00:56:35,910 --> 00:56:34,240
they're time travelers maybe there's

1442
00:56:37,829 --> 00:56:35,920
something else more exotic crypto

1443
00:56:39,589 --> 00:56:37,839
terrestrials ultra-terrestrials we

1444
00:56:41,270 --> 00:56:39,599
really don't know and we don't know that

1445
00:56:43,270 --> 00:56:41,280
it's just one it could be many different

1446
00:56:45,349 --> 00:56:43,280
ones with different kinds of agendas

1447
00:56:47,430 --> 00:56:45,359
yeah there are indications

1448
00:56:49,990 --> 00:56:47,440
call them alien editorials people who

1449
00:56:51,670 --> 00:56:50,000
are contactees abductees over the years

1450
00:56:53,589 --> 00:56:51,680
who say they've been given messages by

1451
00:56:55,430 --> 00:56:53,599
these beings we want you to take care of

1452
00:56:57,829 --> 00:56:55,440
your planet we want you to be kind to

1453
00:56:59,510 --> 00:56:57,839
each other quit blowing up atomic bombs

1454
00:57:01,589 --> 00:56:59,520
pay attention to the environment you're

1455
00:57:03,510 --> 00:57:01,599
polluting your planet they express an

1456
00:57:05,030 --> 00:57:03,520
interest in in human development and

1457
00:57:06,549 --> 00:57:05,040
human health and there are rare

1458
00:57:09,190 --> 00:57:06,559
instances where they've supposedly

1459
00:57:11,349 --> 00:57:09,200
helped humans overcome crippling

1460
00:57:14,710 --> 00:57:11,359
diseases but overall you know there are

1461
00:57:16,710 --> 00:57:14,720
a lot of contrary uh indications as well

1462
00:57:19,030 --> 00:57:16,720
sometimes these intelligences seem to be

1463
00:57:21,270 --> 00:57:19,040
just completely oblivious to us uh they

1464
00:57:23,109 --> 00:57:21,280
don't care whether we see them or not

1465
00:57:25,670 --> 00:57:23,119
they don't seem to want to interact with

1466
00:57:27,510 --> 00:57:25,680
us sometimes they lie to us uh jim

1467
00:57:29,430 --> 00:57:27,520
semavan of cia i interviewed him a

1468
00:57:32,150 --> 00:57:29,440
couple of days ago he says you know

1469
00:57:35,589 --> 00:57:32,160
looking at the databases and the the

1470
00:57:37,510 --> 00:57:35,599
vast uh over arching uh information

1471
00:57:39,829 --> 00:57:37,520
about the subject is that

1472
00:57:41,670 --> 00:57:39,839
we don't know what they're here for or

1473
00:57:43,750 --> 00:57:41,680
what their interest is in us they lie to

1474
00:57:45,750 --> 00:57:43,760
us they trick us they mislead us they

1475
00:57:47,190 --> 00:57:45,760
take on different shapes we don't know

1476
00:57:48,710 --> 00:57:47,200
where they're from we don't know how

1477
00:57:50,309 --> 00:57:48,720
long they've been here i mean we don't

1478
00:57:53,589 --> 00:57:50,319
know any of the answers to the really

1479
00:57:54,309 --> 00:57:53,599
big question so i am reluctant to assign

1480
00:57:58,309 --> 00:57:54,319
a

1481
00:58:01,430 --> 00:57:58,319
different intelligences we don't even

1482
00:58:04,309 --> 00:58:01,440
know how many of them there are

1483
00:58:06,470 --> 00:58:04,319
i would agree with that i i i think the

1484
00:58:08,950 --> 00:58:06,480
um

1485
00:58:11,430 --> 00:58:08,960
the vast majority of the cases that we

1486
00:58:13,670 --> 00:58:11,440
looked at um through the

1487
00:58:16,230 --> 00:58:13,680
uh asap database

1488
00:58:19,109 --> 00:58:16,240
seemed to indicate that

1489
00:58:21,270 --> 00:58:19,119
people were having physiological effects

1490
00:58:23,990 --> 00:58:21,280
and medical effects but there were a

1491
00:58:26,789 --> 00:58:24,000
subset of cases that do directly address

1492
00:58:28,950 --> 00:58:26,799
your listeners question and and you know

1493
00:58:32,710 --> 00:58:28,960
there was a sense of

1494
00:58:35,510 --> 00:58:32,720
uplift uh you know feeling feeling that

1495
00:58:38,630 --> 00:58:35,520
at the end of the day that this was a

1496
00:58:40,549 --> 00:58:38,640
positive effect on on you know they they

1497
00:58:44,069 --> 00:58:40,559
had a life-changing experience as a

1498
00:58:46,470 --> 00:58:44,079
result of interaction with ufos um but

1499
00:58:48,069 --> 00:58:46,480
in general was a positive effect and you

1500
00:58:50,470 --> 00:58:48,079
know as george mentioned there were sort

1501
00:58:54,470 --> 00:58:50,480
of there are sporadic cases

1502
00:58:56,950 --> 00:58:54,480
of of uh these uh where where people are

1503
00:58:59,589 --> 00:58:56,960
healed quote unquote from various

1504
00:59:02,390 --> 00:58:59,599
ailments as a result uh these are

1505
00:59:05,430 --> 00:59:02,400
anecdotal uh you know everything to do

1506
00:59:08,230 --> 00:59:05,440
with ufos is anecdotal unfortunately but

1507
00:59:11,109 --> 00:59:08,240
you know in our database i think that

1508
00:59:13,510 --> 00:59:11,119
the vast majority of the cases uh were

1509
00:59:15,670 --> 00:59:13,520
not this benign subset but there was a

1510
00:59:18,470 --> 00:59:15,680
benign subset

1511
00:59:20,309 --> 00:59:18,480
associated with positive effects i mean

1512
00:59:22,710 --> 00:59:20,319
even going back to

1513
00:59:26,069 --> 00:59:22,720
uh skinwalker ranch

1514
00:59:29,109 --> 00:59:26,079
just after the sherman family

1515
00:59:31,589 --> 00:59:29,119
had sold the property to robert bigelow

1516
00:59:33,829 --> 00:59:31,599
in 1996

1517
00:59:36,309 --> 00:59:33,839
the last thing that they saw

1518
00:59:38,549 --> 00:59:36,319
as as the husband and wife were on the

1519
00:59:41,589 --> 00:59:38,559
property was they lucked up and it was a

1520
00:59:43,910 --> 00:59:41,599
bright sunny day and this disc this

1521
00:59:47,030 --> 00:59:43,920
silver disc came right down

1522
00:59:48,150 --> 00:59:47,040
um and and harvard you know it was in

1523
00:59:52,069 --> 00:59:48,160
the sky

1524
00:59:54,470 --> 00:59:52,079
uh and they felt enormous positive

1525
00:59:56,789 --> 00:59:54,480
uh feelings and sort of you know

1526
00:59:59,349 --> 00:59:56,799
um after the nightmare that just gone

1527
01:00:03,030 --> 00:59:59,359
through over a two-year period this was

1528
01:00:06,630 --> 01:00:03,040
sort of the parting shot from a silver

1529
01:00:07,750 --> 01:00:06,640
disc which was a classic uh ufo uh in

1530
01:00:10,309 --> 01:00:07,760
the sky

1531
01:00:13,990 --> 01:00:10,319
and their overwhelming take-home message

1532
01:00:17,109 --> 01:00:14,000
from that encounter was very positive

1533
01:00:18,069 --> 01:00:17,119
you know very joyful et cetera et cetera

1534
01:00:23,030 --> 01:00:18,079
um

1535
01:00:24,309 --> 01:00:23,040
it was this was this just a random

1536
01:00:26,870 --> 01:00:24,319
occurrence

1537
01:00:30,549 --> 01:00:26,880
but it was a very a positive experience

1538
01:00:33,030 --> 01:00:32,069
speaking of books there are plenty of

1539
01:00:34,950 --> 01:00:33,040
questions

1540
01:00:36,950 --> 01:00:34,960
which reference the book in fact this

1541
01:00:39,349 --> 01:00:36,960
guy arthur who asked a question earlier

1542
01:00:40,870 --> 01:00:39,359
arthur swatalsky he's such a trooper he

1543
01:00:42,950 --> 01:00:40,880
just outlined page number and then a

1544
01:00:46,630 --> 01:00:42,960
question on that page number so on page

1545
01:00:48,870 --> 01:00:46,640
49 he says in regard to lou lou

1546
01:00:51,750 --> 01:00:48,880
elizondo's remote viewing talents has

1547
01:00:54,069 --> 01:00:51,760
lou or anyone else on the team of bass

1548
01:00:54,870 --> 01:00:54,079
used their remote viewing capabilities

1549
01:01:00,069 --> 01:00:54,880
to

1550
01:01:03,910 --> 01:01:00,079
purportedly house crafts slash bodies or

1551
01:01:05,349 --> 01:01:03,920
to communicate with slash locate uaps

1552
01:01:12,710 --> 01:01:05,359
and then they even wrote in bracket this

1553
01:01:17,670 --> 01:01:15,109
spent so much time uh annotating the

1554
01:01:21,349 --> 01:01:17,680
pages because frankly i don't know what

1555
01:01:24,150 --> 01:01:21,359
page 120 says but um

1556
01:01:26,470 --> 01:01:24,160
in terms of remote viewing um bigelow

1557
01:01:29,510 --> 01:01:26,480
aerospace advanced space studies

1558
01:01:32,309 --> 01:01:29,520
uh proposed a remote viewing project to

1559
01:01:35,670 --> 01:01:32,319
defense intelligence agency as part of

1560
01:01:38,470 --> 01:01:35,680
the menu or proposals that we submitted

1561
01:01:41,109 --> 01:01:38,480
in response to the request for proposals

1562
01:01:44,950 --> 01:01:41,119
that dia put out

1563
01:01:46,789 --> 01:01:44,960
dia actually rejected that proposal

1564
01:01:49,109 --> 01:01:46,799
they said we don't want to spend

1565
01:01:51,589 --> 01:01:49,119
enormous amounts of money train training

1566
01:01:53,829 --> 01:01:51,599
remote viewers but they did allow us to

1567
01:01:56,950 --> 01:01:53,839
conduct a pilot program

1568
01:02:01,670 --> 01:01:56,960
on the uh on remote viewing and in the

1569
01:02:04,390 --> 01:02:01,680
book at um we we did a contract with

1570
01:02:08,150 --> 01:02:04,400
uh legendary remote viewer joe mike

1571
01:02:10,870 --> 01:02:08,160
monaco who um we you know

1572
01:02:13,510 --> 01:02:10,880
per the usual method for remote viewing

1573
01:02:15,510 --> 01:02:13,520
we gave him only latitude and long

1574
01:02:17,270 --> 01:02:15,520
longitude coordinates

1575
01:02:20,470 --> 01:02:17,280
and um

1576
01:02:22,710 --> 01:02:20,480
he he produced a report for

1577
01:02:25,670 --> 01:02:22,720
the defense intelligence agency

1578
01:02:28,069 --> 01:02:25,680
ultimately but bass and

1579
01:02:29,670 --> 01:02:28,079
in it he mapped out the property and he

1580
01:02:31,990 --> 01:02:29,680
talked about various beings on the

1581
01:02:35,030 --> 01:02:32,000
property

1582
01:02:37,670 --> 01:02:35,040
in terms of a full-fledged um remote

1583
01:02:39,829 --> 01:02:37,680
viewing exercise uh we were not

1584
01:02:43,430 --> 01:02:39,839
permitted under the

1585
01:02:46,789 --> 01:02:43,440
contract that we were given to

1586
01:02:49,190 --> 01:02:46,799
do a full remote viewing of the uh you

1587
01:02:50,870 --> 01:02:49,200
know during the bass program so we were

1588
01:02:53,910 --> 01:02:50,880
not permitted to do that by the defense

1589
01:02:55,349 --> 01:02:53,920
intelligence agency

1590
01:02:57,829 --> 01:02:55,359
george you have anything to add to that

1591
01:02:59,589 --> 01:02:57,839
yeah i'd add this is that uh column and

1592
01:03:01,349 --> 01:02:59,599
i wrote an earlier book called hunt for

1593
01:03:03,349 --> 01:03:01,359
the skinwalker which was

1594
01:03:05,589 --> 01:03:03,359
mainly focused on nids which is the

1595
01:03:07,829 --> 01:03:05,599
national institute for discovery science

1596
01:03:10,309 --> 01:03:07,839
pardon all the acronyms but nids was an

1597
01:03:12,789 --> 01:03:10,319
organization created by mr bigelow prior

1598
01:03:15,270 --> 01:03:12,799
to him getting a contract for the dia to

1599
01:03:17,190 --> 01:03:15,280
run this other program and nids studied

1600
01:03:19,750 --> 01:03:17,200
among other things skinwalker ranch in

1601
01:03:21,829 --> 01:03:19,760
in utah and just as sort of an

1602
01:03:24,230 --> 01:03:21,839
experiment uh as a side note while

1603
01:03:26,309 --> 01:03:24,240
preparing that book i had tasked a

1604
01:03:27,910 --> 01:03:26,319
remote viewing group here in nevada to

1605
01:03:30,069 --> 01:03:27,920
take a look at the ranch without telling

1606
01:03:32,390 --> 01:03:30,079
them what i was asking and look at they

1607
01:03:34,789 --> 01:03:32,400
found some interesting things they found

1608
01:03:37,109 --> 01:03:34,799
evidence of military surveillance they

1609
01:03:39,349 --> 01:03:37,119
found some indications of underground

1610
01:03:42,069 --> 01:03:39,359
facilities and control rooms so they

1611
01:03:43,829 --> 01:03:42,079
were able to pierce the veil of a sort

1612
01:03:46,549 --> 01:03:43,839
but of course i was never able to

1613
01:03:48,950 --> 01:03:46,559
physically verify what they saw in these

1614
01:03:50,470 --> 01:03:48,960
reviewing visions was actually

1615
01:03:53,349 --> 01:03:50,480
physically there yeah it would be a

1616
01:03:54,950 --> 01:03:53,359
really interesting task and an endeavor

1617
01:03:56,789 --> 01:03:54,960
to try to get remote viewers to take a

1618
01:03:59,990 --> 01:03:56,799
look at not just the ranch but other

1619
01:04:03,430 --> 01:04:00,000
places like area 51 or places where we

1620
01:04:05,430 --> 01:04:03,440
suspect recovered discs or medical medic

1621
01:04:07,589 --> 01:04:05,440
metal pieces bits and pieces from crash

1622
01:04:09,750 --> 01:04:07,599
sites might be stashed we haven't done

1623
01:04:13,750 --> 01:04:11,670
okay this question comes from da

1624
01:04:16,069 --> 01:04:13,760
gummette i'm late to the party but i

1625
01:04:17,270 --> 01:04:16,079
finally read the book sobering is right

1626
01:04:19,270 --> 01:04:17,280
two questions

1627
01:04:21,190 --> 01:04:19,280
number one do other countries have the

1628
01:04:23,510 --> 01:04:21,200
same after effects specifically the

1629
01:04:26,069 --> 01:04:23,520
archetypal beasts as north america

1630
01:04:30,710 --> 01:04:26,079
because it seems culturally specific and

1631
01:04:33,990 --> 01:04:32,230
well for example bigfoot if you talk

1632
01:04:35,589 --> 01:04:34,000
about crypto creatures has been seen

1633
01:04:37,190 --> 01:04:35,599
everywhere in the world i think maybe

1634
01:04:39,029 --> 01:04:37,200
hawaii might be the only place where

1635
01:04:41,670 --> 01:04:39,039
something like it hasn't been seen and i

1636
01:04:43,750 --> 01:04:41,680
could be wrong there um so a lot of the

1637
01:04:47,109 --> 01:04:43,760
crypto type creatures that we see here

1638
01:04:49,029 --> 01:04:47,119
uh dog men wolf men um you know uh

1639
01:04:50,710 --> 01:04:49,039
creatures that are wear creatures

1640
01:04:52,309 --> 01:04:50,720
they've been seen all over the world in

1641
01:04:54,630 --> 01:04:52,319
every culture so there are a lot of

1642
01:04:56,470 --> 01:04:54,640
similarities i think there are specific

1643
01:04:58,549 --> 01:04:56,480
kinds of crypto creatures that are

1644
01:05:01,510 --> 01:04:58,559
unique to different parts of the world

1645
01:05:02,630 --> 01:05:01,520
um we've seen at skinwalker we've seen a

1646
01:05:04,710 --> 01:05:02,640
mix of them

1647
01:05:06,630 --> 01:05:04,720
i mean it almost gets bizarre and

1648
01:05:08,309 --> 01:05:06,640
ridiculous there are creatures that have

1649
01:05:10,309 --> 01:05:08,319
been seen there by the ranchers and

1650
01:05:12,630 --> 01:05:10,319
property owners neighbors that don't

1651
01:05:14,870 --> 01:05:12,640
exist in nature column saw one of them

1652
01:05:17,029 --> 01:05:14,880
column experienced that walking with the

1653
01:05:18,950 --> 01:05:17,039
female intelligence officer in the

1654
01:05:21,510 --> 01:05:18,960
middle homestead at the ranch and they

1655
01:05:24,069 --> 01:05:21,520
saw what uh what people have laughingly

1656
01:05:25,750 --> 01:05:24,079
called a dino beaver uh column maybe you

1657
01:05:27,270 --> 01:05:25,760
want to tell that story what this thing

1658
01:05:30,630 --> 01:05:27,280
looked like

1659
01:05:34,950 --> 01:05:30,640
yeah i was i was on the property uh with

1660
01:05:37,109 --> 01:05:34,960
robert bigelow and uh with um the person

1661
01:05:39,990 --> 01:05:37,119
in the book who was a

1662
01:05:41,750 --> 01:05:40,000
a defense and intelligence analyst her

1663
01:05:42,710 --> 01:05:41,760
name was juliet wit

1664
01:05:43,910 --> 01:05:42,720
and

1665
01:05:46,870 --> 01:05:43,920
you know

1666
01:05:49,829 --> 01:05:46,880
um during the day

1667
01:05:52,470 --> 01:05:49,839
juliette and i had walked the property

1668
01:05:55,430 --> 01:05:52,480
we had done a lot of photography of the

1669
01:05:57,109 --> 01:05:55,440
property i had briefed julia on the

1670
01:05:58,950 --> 01:05:57,119
various um

1671
01:06:01,190 --> 01:05:58,960
incidents that had happened during the

1672
01:06:02,950 --> 01:06:01,200
national institute for discovery science

1673
01:06:05,109 --> 01:06:02,960
program on the ranch

1674
01:06:07,670 --> 01:06:05,119
julia climbed up on top of the

1675
01:06:08,870 --> 01:06:07,680
skidwalker ridge which is the northern

1676
01:06:13,270 --> 01:06:08,880
prop

1677
01:06:16,950 --> 01:06:13,280
the ranch and she took a lot of

1678
01:06:18,789 --> 01:06:16,960
photographs um so that night at about 10

1679
01:06:21,829 --> 01:06:18,799
o'clock

1680
01:06:25,109 --> 01:06:21,839
myself robert bigelow and juliet

1681
01:06:26,950 --> 01:06:25,119
went down to an area near homestead

1682
01:06:30,230 --> 01:06:26,960
number two which is kind of the center

1683
01:06:33,270 --> 01:06:30,240
of the ranch but also the location where

1684
01:06:36,549 --> 01:06:33,280
over the last 25 years there have been

1685
01:06:37,829 --> 01:06:36,559
literally dozens of anomalies reported

1686
01:06:40,470 --> 01:06:37,839
and recorded

1687
01:06:43,270 --> 01:06:40,480
and uh and and witnessed so

1688
01:06:46,630 --> 01:06:43,280
uh what we did was um we had we had

1689
01:06:49,750 --> 01:06:46,640
chairs with us we sat out in the in the

1690
01:06:52,390 --> 01:06:49,760
middle of a pasture uh near homestead 2

1691
01:06:54,630 --> 01:06:52,400
about probably i don't know 50 feet away

1692
01:06:56,150 --> 01:06:54,640
from homestead 2.

1693
01:06:57,670 --> 01:06:56,160
and that the way the chairs were

1694
01:07:00,230 --> 01:06:57,680
oriented where

1695
01:07:03,750 --> 01:07:00,240
we were back to back to back so each one

1696
01:07:05,990 --> 01:07:03,760
of us was facing in a 60 to 60 degree

1697
01:07:09,109 --> 01:07:06,000
angle away from each other so we could

1698
01:07:09,910 --> 01:07:09,119
essentially cover the entire 360 degrees

1699
01:07:12,549 --> 01:07:09,920
so

1700
01:07:15,990 --> 01:07:12,559
um we noticed myself and robert bigelow

1701
01:07:16,950 --> 01:07:16,000
noticed that um juliet was was really

1702
01:07:21,349 --> 01:07:16,960
getting

1703
01:07:22,789 --> 01:07:21,359
because you know it was pretty it was

1704
01:07:24,950 --> 01:07:22,799
very very dark

1705
01:07:27,029 --> 01:07:24,960
uh it was you know you could see the

1706
01:07:29,349 --> 01:07:27,039
faint light of homesteads

1707
01:07:32,150 --> 01:07:29,359
um way in the distance and we were

1708
01:07:35,670 --> 01:07:32,160
sitting out sort of sitting ducks in her

1709
01:07:37,430 --> 01:07:35,680
mind uh and and i guess in our minds too

1710
01:07:39,990 --> 01:07:37,440
sitting ducks for anything that wanted

1711
01:07:42,390 --> 01:07:40,000
to sort of pass by so she was getting

1712
01:07:44,710 --> 01:07:42,400
pretty nervous so robert bigelow sort of

1713
01:07:46,150 --> 01:07:44,720
got up and walked down uh he was

1714
01:07:48,549 --> 01:07:46,160
strolling down

1715
01:07:51,270 --> 01:07:48,559
uh about a hundred yards south

1716
01:07:54,230 --> 01:07:51,280
so i got up to um

1717
01:07:56,390 --> 01:07:54,240
you know to head over to the opposite

1718
01:07:58,549 --> 01:07:56,400
direction in the direction of the

1719
01:08:01,270 --> 01:07:58,559
homestead 2 building which is an

1720
01:08:03,349 --> 01:08:01,280
abandoned homestead about 100 years old

1721
01:08:04,069 --> 01:08:03,359
that's kind of like in ruins

1722
01:08:07,349 --> 01:08:04,079
so

1723
01:08:09,430 --> 01:08:07,359
about 30 feet in front of me i see this

1724
01:08:13,430 --> 01:08:09,440
what looks like a

1725
01:08:16,550 --> 01:08:13,440
maybe somewhere between 100 to 150 pound

1726
01:08:18,550 --> 01:08:16,560
creature that's motoring along the tree

1727
01:08:21,349 --> 01:08:18,560
line in front of me up it's about 30

1728
01:08:23,269 --> 01:08:21,359
feet away i looked over at juliet wit

1729
01:08:25,910 --> 01:08:23,279
and she's looking at it too

1730
01:08:27,990 --> 01:08:25,920
and this thing looked like it had

1731
01:08:28,870 --> 01:08:28,000
um like blocked

1732
01:08:30,470 --> 01:08:28,880
uh

1733
01:08:33,189 --> 01:08:30,480
blocks on the

1734
01:08:35,430 --> 01:08:33,199
spine emanating from the spine

1735
01:08:37,749 --> 01:08:35,440
i guess the nearest equivalent i can

1736
01:08:41,510 --> 01:08:37,759
think of in terms of what what i was

1737
01:08:43,510 --> 01:08:41,520
looking at is a very very small version

1738
01:08:46,149 --> 01:08:43,520
of a stegosaurus

1739
01:08:48,229 --> 01:08:46,159
but i could see also and this was very

1740
01:08:50,789 --> 01:08:48,239
very dim light

1741
01:08:53,430 --> 01:08:50,799
this creature was motoring north

1742
01:08:56,149 --> 01:08:53,440
and it was absolutely silent it had what

1743
01:08:58,070 --> 01:08:56,159
looked like a flat tail uh low to the

1744
01:09:00,470 --> 01:08:58,080
ground and it was a pretty bulky

1745
01:09:03,349 --> 01:09:00,480
creature i mean it was small but it was

1746
01:09:05,749 --> 01:09:03,359
pretty bulky and my estimate you know in

1747
01:09:08,789 --> 01:09:05,759
hindsight is probably somewhere between

1748
01:09:11,510 --> 01:09:08,799
100 and 150 pounds but what the most

1749
01:09:14,149 --> 01:09:11,520
bizarre aspect of this whole thing was

1750
01:09:17,030 --> 01:09:14,159
that it was like a cone of silence had

1751
01:09:19,430 --> 01:09:17,040
descended on the uh you know on this

1752
01:09:20,550 --> 01:09:19,440
whole area and you know even the

1753
01:09:23,189 --> 01:09:20,560
crickets

1754
01:09:25,189 --> 01:09:23,199
you know this kind of ambient noise

1755
01:09:27,030 --> 01:09:25,199
out on the out on skinwalker ranch when

1756
01:09:29,910 --> 01:09:27,040
you're sitting there for hours

1757
01:09:32,789 --> 01:09:29,920
all of that has had stopped there was no

1758
01:09:34,950 --> 01:09:32,799
noise whatsoever and this thing was was

1759
01:09:37,910 --> 01:09:34,960
motoring north it should have been

1760
01:09:40,070 --> 01:09:37,920
rustling and you know leaves and grass

1761
01:09:42,950 --> 01:09:40,080
as it went by was maybe

1762
01:09:45,430 --> 01:09:42,960
i get i'm guessing about 30 maybe 40

1763
01:09:47,910 --> 01:09:45,440
feet away from me it was probably 50

1764
01:09:50,229 --> 01:09:47,920
feet away from juliet so we watched this

1765
01:09:53,829 --> 01:09:50,239
thing it made a beeline for the the

1766
01:09:56,870 --> 01:09:53,839
corner of the abandoned homestead 2 and

1767
01:09:59,270 --> 01:09:56,880
went behind it and it was like you know

1768
01:10:01,990 --> 01:09:59,280
probably a few seconds later myself and

1769
01:10:03,910 --> 01:10:02,000
juliet sort of went right over to try to

1770
01:10:07,270 --> 01:10:03,920
follow this thing to get a better view

1771
01:10:09,510 --> 01:10:07,280
of it and uh we couldn't see any side of

1772
01:10:12,149 --> 01:10:09,520
it we went around the corner of the of

1773
01:10:13,750 --> 01:10:12,159
the building turned right and there

1774
01:10:16,550 --> 01:10:13,760
there's a sort of a gap between the

1775
01:10:19,430 --> 01:10:16,560
corner of the building and as a set of

1776
01:10:21,430 --> 01:10:19,440
trees that eventually ends up on the uh

1777
01:10:23,990 --> 01:10:21,440
on the track that goes east west on

1778
01:10:26,870 --> 01:10:24,000
skinwalker ranch we could not see any

1779
01:10:28,310 --> 01:10:26,880
sign of this creature but you know

1780
01:10:30,390 --> 01:10:28,320
it's kind of like

1781
01:10:33,910 --> 01:10:30,400
the moment in time

1782
01:10:35,830 --> 01:10:33,920
uh was pretty short you know maybe i

1783
01:10:37,830 --> 01:10:35,840
don't know probably less than 30 seconds

1784
01:10:41,270 --> 01:10:37,840
when we were looking at this there was

1785
01:10:43,750 --> 01:10:41,280
absolute silence and it was like uh a

1786
01:10:46,149 --> 01:10:43,760
sort of a version of shock

1787
01:10:48,070 --> 01:10:46,159
when you're seeing something like this

1788
01:10:49,030 --> 01:10:48,080
and then by the time it got behind the

1789
01:10:50,470 --> 01:10:49,040
building

1790
01:10:51,830 --> 01:10:50,480
i mean

1791
01:10:54,550 --> 01:10:51,840
if we had

1792
01:10:57,189 --> 01:10:54,560
had the ultimate sort of planning move

1793
01:11:01,110 --> 01:10:57,199
into high gear instead of being in

1794
01:11:03,350 --> 01:11:01,120
involved with this oz effect um we could

1795
01:11:05,669 --> 01:11:03,360
have got the uh night vision binoculars

1796
01:11:07,350 --> 01:11:05,679
out uh we searched for the creature with

1797
01:11:11,110 --> 01:11:07,360
night vision binoculars but we couldn't

1798
01:11:12,550 --> 01:11:11,120
find anything but this is an example of

1799
01:11:15,590 --> 01:11:12,560
the kind of

1800
01:11:18,390 --> 01:11:15,600
thing that happens on skinwalker ranch

1801
01:11:21,510 --> 01:11:18,400
and yes it is very easy to sit on a

1802
01:11:24,149 --> 01:11:21,520
couch or sit on an armchair and say why

1803
01:11:26,709 --> 01:11:24,159
the hell did you guys you know take your

1804
01:11:29,510 --> 01:11:26,719
night vision binoculars out but

1805
01:11:31,750 --> 01:11:29,520
you had to be there um you know there

1806
01:11:34,709 --> 01:11:31,760
are plenty of instances on skinwalker

1807
01:11:38,149 --> 01:11:34,719
ranch when we have captured photographs

1808
01:11:40,870 --> 01:11:38,159
we have captured videos of fast-moving

1809
01:11:43,270 --> 01:11:40,880
orbs and this kind of thing we have gobs

1810
01:11:46,070 --> 01:11:43,280
of photographs of of these orb-like

1811
01:11:48,470 --> 01:11:46,080
structures on on skin marker ranch but

1812
01:11:51,189 --> 01:11:48,480
that time looking at this creature

1813
01:11:53,189 --> 01:11:51,199
you know i you know uh if i had to do it

1814
01:11:55,590 --> 01:11:53,199
all over again i would have had the

1815
01:11:58,630 --> 01:11:55,600
night vision binoculars a lot more sort

1816
01:12:00,229 --> 01:11:58,640
of prepared in my grasp

1817
01:12:02,229 --> 01:12:00,239
for people who want to see some of those

1818
01:12:04,229 --> 01:12:02,239
images that you recorded or videos where

1819
01:12:07,270 --> 01:12:04,239
did they go

1820
01:12:08,470 --> 01:12:07,280
um they're all in the uh the niz

1821
01:12:12,709 --> 01:12:08,480
repository

1822
01:12:18,229 --> 01:12:15,189
is there a plan to release it

1823
01:12:21,110 --> 01:12:18,239
um that's uh i i don't own that uh that

1824
01:12:24,229 --> 01:12:21,120
data set that would have to be the owner

1825
01:12:27,110 --> 01:12:24,239
of the of the data set and that would be

1826
01:12:29,750 --> 01:12:27,120
uh robert bigelow and niz i mean this is

1827
01:12:31,910 --> 01:12:29,760
a private uh was a private company and

1828
01:12:33,830 --> 01:12:31,920
it was accumulating private

1829
01:12:37,270 --> 01:12:33,840
privately held data

1830
01:12:39,750 --> 01:12:37,280
for analysis now all of the data that

1831
01:12:43,189 --> 01:12:39,760
nid's acquired over time

1832
01:12:45,990 --> 01:12:43,199
um is still on the nid's website there's

1833
01:12:48,950 --> 01:12:46,000
a cached version of the nid's website we

1834
01:12:51,189 --> 01:12:48,960
wrote gobs and gobs of papers that we

1835
01:12:53,910 --> 01:12:51,199
published on the ned's website all you

1836
01:12:56,950 --> 01:12:53,920
need to do is google national institute

1837
01:13:00,229 --> 01:12:56,960
for discovery science wikipedia and you

1838
01:13:02,709 --> 01:13:00,239
will find a full uh cached version of

1839
01:13:05,430 --> 01:13:02,719
the nid's website there are dozens and

1840
01:13:08,310 --> 01:13:05,440
dozens of papers on the nids website

1841
01:13:11,590 --> 01:13:08,320
that the knit scientists

1842
01:13:14,390 --> 01:13:11,600
actually published on that website so in

1843
01:13:16,470 --> 01:13:14,400
terms of our published data it's all

1844
01:13:18,870 --> 01:13:16,480
available you know just happens

1845
01:13:22,390 --> 01:13:18,880
photographs of orbs are not available

1846
01:13:24,149 --> 01:13:22,400
but there is a very large data set of

1847
01:13:27,590 --> 01:13:24,159
published literature

1848
01:13:29,510 --> 01:13:27,600
involving everything from investigations

1849
01:13:33,030 --> 01:13:29,520
of cat mutilations

1850
01:13:35,430 --> 01:13:33,040
to investigations of ufo phenomena and

1851
01:13:38,390 --> 01:13:35,440
they're all written up in the scientific

1852
01:13:40,070 --> 01:13:38,400
vernacular on the needs website and

1853
01:13:42,149 --> 01:13:40,080
actually i looked at this website

1854
01:13:44,870 --> 01:13:42,159
yesterday so it is

1855
01:13:47,830 --> 01:13:44,880
actually available as we speak so if

1856
01:13:50,709 --> 01:13:47,840
people want to look at the raw data as

1857
01:13:53,110 --> 01:13:50,719
published in these uh in these nets

1858
01:13:55,189 --> 01:13:53,120
studies they're all available in this

1859
01:13:57,189 --> 01:13:55,199
cached website

1860
01:13:59,830 --> 01:13:57,199
i should point out the awesome

1861
01:14:01,669 --> 01:13:59,840
information and database is mostly not

1862
01:14:03,830 --> 01:14:01,679
public either we've given in our book

1863
01:14:05,030 --> 01:14:03,840
we've given a glimpse of of what was

1864
01:14:07,110 --> 01:14:05,040
available

1865
01:14:10,390 --> 01:14:07,120
as column mentioned earlier

1866
01:14:12,790 --> 01:14:10,400
bass produced 104 reports that were

1867
01:14:15,270 --> 01:14:12,800
submitted to dia many of them with

1868
01:14:17,430 --> 01:14:15,280
photographs and charts and all kinds of

1869
01:14:20,550 --> 01:14:17,440
evidence uh that information has not

1870
01:14:23,189 --> 01:14:20,560
been made public uh we hope that someday

1871
01:14:25,750 --> 01:14:23,199
it will be you know in writing the book

1872
01:14:28,310 --> 01:14:25,760
uh we told as much of that story as we

1873
01:14:30,229 --> 01:14:28,320
were allowed to tell it took 14 months

1874
01:14:32,149 --> 01:14:30,239
for the pentagon to sign off on our

1875
01:14:34,470 --> 01:14:32,159
manuscript they went through the this

1876
01:14:37,910 --> 01:14:34,480
dobson process we did have to make some

1877
01:14:40,229 --> 01:14:37,920
changes that they mandated specifically

1878
01:14:42,390 --> 01:14:40,239
especially about names of active duty

1879
01:14:44,470 --> 01:14:42,400
personnel we told as much of that story

1880
01:14:46,709 --> 01:14:44,480
as we could but there's a gigantic

1881
01:14:47,910 --> 01:14:46,719
amount of information that was sent to

1882
01:14:50,229 --> 01:14:47,920
dia

1883
01:14:51,430 --> 01:14:50,239
that i know a lot of foia requests have

1884
01:14:53,189 --> 01:14:51,440
been filed

1885
01:14:54,709 --> 01:14:53,199
none of that has been made public yet

1886
01:14:56,950 --> 01:14:54,719
but we think it should all be made

1887
01:14:59,590 --> 01:14:56,960
public eventually

1888
01:15:01,430 --> 01:14:59,600
this question comes from jacksonvega ask

1889
01:15:06,709 --> 01:15:01,440
them what they think of stephen grier's

1890
01:15:11,750 --> 01:15:09,350
well um i think it's worth a try you

1891
01:15:13,350 --> 01:15:11,760
know i i had a chance to interview some

1892
01:15:15,189 --> 01:15:13,360
guys who uh

1893
01:15:17,750 --> 01:15:15,199
they they are sort of like the prophet

1894
01:15:19,830 --> 01:15:17,760
yahweh it's this guy who 20 years ago

1895
01:15:22,790 --> 01:15:19,840
said he could call in ufos and he'd go

1896
01:15:25,270 --> 01:15:22,800
out and meditate and try to draw things

1897
01:15:28,070 --> 01:15:25,280
in and and sometimes it worked and

1898
01:15:30,229 --> 01:15:28,080
sometimes it didn't uh there's a group

1899
01:15:32,790 --> 01:15:30,239
of fellows that i know who have tried

1900
01:15:34,390 --> 01:15:32,800
this picked up the mantle and have been

1901
01:15:36,149 --> 01:15:34,400
had some amazing experiences that

1902
01:15:37,189 --> 01:15:36,159
they've videotaped

1903
01:15:41,990 --> 01:15:37,199
um

1904
01:15:44,550 --> 01:15:42,000
so it it does happen it it can happen

1905
01:15:46,550 --> 01:15:44,560
steven grier who did some really great

1906
01:15:48,149 --> 01:15:46,560
uh early work in getting ufo

1907
01:15:49,990 --> 01:15:48,159
whistleblowers to come forward getting

1908
01:15:52,950 --> 01:15:50,000
their testimony out to

1909
01:15:55,910 --> 01:15:52,960
national um media organizations

1910
01:15:57,510 --> 01:15:55,920
is a champion of this ce5 he charges a

1911
01:15:59,430 --> 01:15:57,520
lot of money for people that go out into

1912
01:16:00,709 --> 01:15:59,440
the desert windham and call in flying

1913
01:16:03,030 --> 01:16:00,719
saucers

1914
01:16:04,950 --> 01:16:03,040
a lot of people are put off by how

1915
01:16:07,189 --> 01:16:04,960
expensive it gets and and where the

1916
01:16:08,630 --> 01:16:07,199
money goes especially since it looks

1917
01:16:10,950 --> 01:16:08,640
like people can do this on their own

1918
01:16:12,630 --> 01:16:10,960
without paying stephen greer to do it i

1919
01:16:14,149 --> 01:16:12,640
you know i don't know if it really works

1920
01:16:15,830 --> 01:16:14,159
uh but what the heck i say it's worth

1921
01:16:17,430 --> 01:16:15,840
giving it a try

1922
01:16:19,750 --> 01:16:17,440
column do you have any thoughts on it

1923
01:16:21,510 --> 01:16:19,760
yeah i would agree i think i think it's

1924
01:16:23,270 --> 01:16:21,520
worth

1925
01:16:24,950 --> 01:16:23,280
you know attempting it

1926
01:16:26,870 --> 01:16:24,960
i know that it's been attempted in

1927
01:16:29,110 --> 01:16:26,880
multiple places

1928
01:16:30,709 --> 01:16:29,120
there's been large programs in south

1929
01:16:35,189 --> 01:16:30,719
america

1930
01:16:37,669 --> 01:16:35,199
associated with uh summoning uh ufos and

1931
01:16:38,870 --> 01:16:37,679
uh from the reports that i've seen

1932
01:16:42,149 --> 01:16:38,880
mostly

1933
01:16:44,790 --> 01:16:42,159
um not scientific reports but books and

1934
01:16:46,950 --> 01:16:44,800
uh and magazine articles that there does

1935
01:16:49,110 --> 01:16:46,960
seem to be a level of success but i

1936
01:16:52,070 --> 01:16:49,120
would inject a note of caution into this

1937
01:16:55,430 --> 01:16:52,080
is be careful what you actually

1938
01:16:57,590 --> 01:16:55,440
uh summon and you know um it

1939
01:17:00,950 --> 01:16:57,600
it it could be that these

1940
01:17:04,070 --> 01:17:00,960
uh objects come in all shapes and sizes

1941
01:17:06,790 --> 01:17:04,080
and like we've said for the last uh

1942
01:17:09,910 --> 01:17:06,800
hours so we don't know what the agenda

1943
01:17:12,790 --> 01:17:09,920
of of these objects are i mean it could

1944
01:17:15,669 --> 01:17:12,800
be some some have a benign agenda and it

1945
01:17:18,070 --> 01:17:15,679
could be that some have uh not a benign

1946
01:17:21,510 --> 01:17:18,080
agenda so i would inject a note of

1947
01:17:24,310 --> 01:17:21,520
caution i personally i would not do that

1948
01:17:27,750 --> 01:17:24,320
because i have too much much respect

1949
01:17:29,350 --> 01:17:27,760
uh and caution regarding this phenomena

1950
01:17:30,390 --> 01:17:29,360
because we know too little about this

1951
01:17:32,550 --> 01:17:30,400
phenomenon

1952
01:17:34,870 --> 01:17:32,560
and uh it's it's a case of be careful

1953
01:17:36,630 --> 01:17:34,880
what you wish for

1954
01:17:38,870 --> 01:17:36,640
yeah i feel exactly the same i've been

1955
01:17:41,030 --> 01:17:38,880
told kurt look into it and perform it

1956
01:17:43,110 --> 01:17:41,040
i'm not i'm not going to at least not

1957
01:17:45,110 --> 01:17:43,120
anytime soon because

1958
01:17:46,870 --> 01:17:45,120
it's playing with fire it's worse than

1959
01:17:48,709 --> 01:17:46,880
playing with fire when i was speaking to

1960
01:17:50,630 --> 01:17:48,719
tom delong he expressed similar

1961
01:17:53,270 --> 01:17:50,640
sentiments saying that you don't know

1962
01:17:54,709 --> 01:17:53,280
what you're dealing with and it's

1963
01:17:58,390 --> 01:17:54,719
it could be extremely extremely

1964
01:18:00,070 --> 01:17:58,400
dangerous so i'm of that same opinion

1965
01:18:02,630 --> 01:18:00,080
yeah i mean i i

1966
01:18:05,590 --> 01:18:02,640
i kind of liken it to i mean if you

1967
01:18:08,149 --> 01:18:05,600
summon anything without uh

1968
01:18:09,030 --> 01:18:08,159
without careful sort of training and all

1969
01:18:11,430 --> 01:18:09,040
of that

1970
01:18:14,229 --> 01:18:11,440
um you you really are opening yourselves

1971
01:18:17,510 --> 01:18:14,239
up i would say the same goes for

1972
01:18:20,149 --> 01:18:17,520
ayahuasca tourism for example and this

1973
01:18:22,550 --> 01:18:20,159
this whole idea of sort of going to

1974
01:18:25,030 --> 01:18:22,560
somebody's place that you don't know who

1975
01:18:29,030 --> 01:18:25,040
they are and taking a bunch of ayahuasca

1976
01:18:31,350 --> 01:18:29,040
or dmt or any of the hallucinogenics um

1977
01:18:34,149 --> 01:18:31,360
again it's be careful what you wish for

1978
01:18:37,189 --> 01:18:34,159
uh i mean the originator of this whole

1979
01:18:39,910 --> 01:18:37,199
dmt phenomenon rick strassmann

1980
01:18:43,189 --> 01:18:39,920
who was actually you know he was

1981
01:18:46,310 --> 01:18:43,199
fundamental in sort of initiating the

1982
01:18:50,149 --> 01:18:46,320
the focus on dmt in the western world

1983
01:18:53,110 --> 01:18:50,159
and he did a an nih sponsored study of

1984
01:18:56,950 --> 01:18:53,120
injecting a whole bunch of volunteers

1985
01:19:00,070 --> 01:18:56,960
under under medical medical supervision

1986
01:19:02,470 --> 01:19:00,080
uh in new mexico and uh there's an

1987
01:19:05,030 --> 01:19:02,480
enormous number of these

1988
01:19:08,470 --> 01:19:05,040
young volunteers

1989
01:19:10,149 --> 01:19:08,480
reported encountering these creatures

1990
01:19:13,590 --> 01:19:10,159
and unusual

1991
01:19:15,110 --> 01:19:13,600
uh you know unusual people in in these

1992
01:19:17,430 --> 01:19:15,120
other realms

1993
01:19:20,390 --> 01:19:17,440
but you know rick strassmann later on

1994
01:19:23,110 --> 01:19:20,400
decided to back away from that research

1995
01:19:25,669 --> 01:19:23,120
because he found that some of these

1996
01:19:28,149 --> 01:19:25,679
uh these young people were having

1997
01:19:29,590 --> 01:19:28,159
long-term psychological effects and

1998
01:19:31,990 --> 01:19:29,600
again you know

1999
01:19:34,470 --> 01:19:32,000
under under control conditions it's all

2000
01:19:36,709 --> 01:19:34,480
very well to do this but you know what

2001
01:19:38,870 --> 01:19:36,719
are the long-term effects uh what are

2002
01:19:41,750 --> 01:19:38,880
what are these entities that people are

2003
01:19:43,270 --> 01:19:41,760
actually needing and conversing with i

2004
01:19:46,229 --> 01:19:43,280
mean do you really get the secrets of

2005
01:19:48,630 --> 01:19:46,239
the universe or do you get something

2006
01:19:50,470 --> 01:19:48,640
that you may not have bargained for and

2007
01:19:52,950 --> 01:19:50,480
that you find very do a lot of

2008
01:19:55,430 --> 01:19:52,960
difficulty in getting rid of and you

2009
01:19:57,910 --> 01:19:55,440
know i mean the list goes on and on

2010
01:19:59,910 --> 01:19:57,920
teenagers playing ouija boards and what

2011
01:20:02,470 --> 01:19:59,920
have we you've got to have a certain

2012
01:20:05,110 --> 01:20:02,480
amount of caution uh when you're

2013
01:20:08,149 --> 01:20:05,120
approaching these kinds of phenomena and

2014
01:20:12,390 --> 01:20:08,159
um especially when we know so little

2015
01:20:16,070 --> 01:20:13,750
this question comes from richard

2016
01:20:18,229 --> 01:20:16,080
brewster i just read skinwalkers at the

2017
01:20:20,070 --> 01:20:18,239
pentagon now with all these research

2018
01:20:22,470 --> 01:20:20,080
with all this research being unable to

2019
01:20:25,750 --> 01:20:22,480
come to a conclusion as to the origins

2020
01:20:28,149 --> 01:20:25,760
or intents of the phenomenon

2021
01:20:30,709 --> 01:20:28,159
does something lead you to speculate in

2022
01:20:33,350 --> 01:20:30,719
one extraterrestrial origin

2023
01:20:35,189 --> 01:20:33,360
direction versus the phenomenon being of

2024
01:20:37,590 --> 01:20:35,199
earth origin i'll just tell you i've

2025
01:20:39,830 --> 01:20:37,600
been as a as an investigative reporter

2026
01:20:42,550 --> 01:20:39,840
i've been chasing this since uh the late

2027
01:20:45,110 --> 01:20:42,560
80s i think the first ufo related

2028
01:20:48,229 --> 01:20:45,120
interview i did was 1987 and i jumped

2029
01:20:50,390 --> 01:20:48,239
into with both feet starting in 1989 and

2030
01:20:53,510 --> 01:20:50,400
the dominant paradigm at that time was

2031
01:20:56,310 --> 01:20:53,520
these are ets within ufo world within

2032
01:20:57,870 --> 01:20:56,320
the the community of ufo researchers

2033
01:21:00,070 --> 01:20:57,880
they generally thought these are

2034
01:21:01,510 --> 01:21:00,080
extraterrestrials or visitors from other

2035
01:21:03,590 --> 01:21:01,520
planets who've been coming here for a

2036
01:21:06,229 --> 01:21:03,600
long time if you look back at the

2037
01:21:08,390 --> 01:21:06,239
history of humanity of recorded history

2038
01:21:10,149 --> 01:21:08,400
these things have been reported in

2039
01:21:11,830 --> 01:21:10,159
every culture on every continent

2040
01:21:13,669 --> 01:21:11,840
throughout human history in one form

2041
01:21:15,750 --> 01:21:13,679
another they've been with us a long time

2042
01:21:17,990 --> 01:21:15,760
maybe been here longer than us but we

2043
01:21:21,110 --> 01:21:18,000
still don't really know what they are uh

2044
01:21:23,590 --> 01:21:21,120
that e.t uh paradigm that which is where

2045
01:21:25,750 --> 01:21:23,600
i started it changed over time you know

2046
01:21:26,870 --> 01:21:25,760
reading dr jacques ballet's

2047
01:21:28,630 --> 01:21:26,880
books

2048
01:21:31,669 --> 01:21:28,640
i i think the first interview i had with

2049
01:21:32,790 --> 01:21:31,679
him in 1990 he said look

2050
01:21:34,630 --> 01:21:32,800
i'll tell you i'm going to be really

2051
01:21:36,630 --> 01:21:34,640
disappointed if it turns out that the

2052
01:21:38,950 --> 01:21:36,640
ultimate answer to the ufo mystery is

2053
01:21:41,110 --> 01:21:38,960
that it's merely visitors from other

2054
01:21:42,870 --> 01:21:41,120
planets because he said the technology

2055
01:21:44,950 --> 01:21:42,880
that we've seen that's been demonstrated

2056
01:21:47,030 --> 01:21:44,960
and documented over the years is they

2057
01:21:49,430 --> 01:21:47,040
control space-time

2058
01:21:51,830 --> 01:21:49,440
somehow they can manipulate gravity and

2059
01:21:53,110 --> 01:21:51,840
time and space in ways that we don't

2060
01:21:55,750 --> 01:21:53,120
understand so they could be

2061
01:21:57,590 --> 01:21:55,760
extraterrestrial and interdimensional

2062
01:21:59,590 --> 01:21:57,600
and time travelers all at once they

2063
01:22:01,510 --> 01:21:59,600
could be something even more exotic that

2064
01:22:04,629 --> 01:22:01,520
we don't understand i think the et

2065
01:22:05,990 --> 01:22:04,639
explanation is one that is possible but

2066
01:22:07,830 --> 01:22:06,000
we really don't know i mean some of

2067
01:22:09,350 --> 01:22:07,840
these beings in their messages to

2068
01:22:11,030 --> 01:22:09,360
contact these they say they're from

2069
01:22:12,629 --> 01:22:11,040
other planets but again i would

2070
01:22:14,629 --> 01:22:12,639
emphasize you can't really trust them

2071
01:22:15,669 --> 01:22:14,639
because they've lied to us over the

2072
01:22:17,750 --> 01:22:15,679
years so

2073
01:22:20,709 --> 01:22:17,760
et is one possibility

2074
01:22:22,790 --> 01:22:20,719
but it's only one and my suspicion is

2075
01:22:24,390 --> 01:22:22,800
it's much more exotic and more

2076
01:22:27,430 --> 01:22:24,400
complicated than that that whatever it

2077
01:22:29,110 --> 01:22:27,440
is has been here with us forever uh

2078
01:22:30,790 --> 01:22:29,120
maybe longer than us

2079
01:22:33,270 --> 01:22:30,800
that it lives here it's not from some

2080
01:22:35,750 --> 01:22:33,280
other place then it lives here and

2081
01:22:36,629 --> 01:22:35,760
that's just a guess we really don't know

2082
01:22:38,070 --> 01:22:36,639
and and

2083
01:22:39,910 --> 01:22:38,080
i'm not going to be the person to figure

2084
01:22:42,070 --> 01:22:39,920
it out somebody's going to win a nobel

2085
01:22:45,270 --> 01:22:42,080
prize someday figuring this out but it's

2086
01:22:47,830 --> 01:22:45,280
obviously not going to be me column

2087
01:22:50,149 --> 01:22:47,840
well i think you know

2088
01:22:53,750 --> 01:22:50,159
i think it's really a shame

2089
01:22:56,550 --> 01:22:53,760
that um for 75 years

2090
01:22:58,149 --> 01:22:56,560
a lot of really smart people have looked

2091
01:23:00,310 --> 01:22:58,159
at this phenomenon

2092
01:23:02,310 --> 01:23:00,320
and um you know there have been stops

2093
01:23:06,709 --> 01:23:02,320
and starts and and

2094
01:23:08,470 --> 01:23:06,719
um small programs large programs but you

2095
01:23:11,990 --> 01:23:08,480
know ultimately

2096
01:23:14,149 --> 01:23:12,000
this requires sort of a level of funding

2097
01:23:15,830 --> 01:23:14,159
from the national science foundation

2098
01:23:17,990 --> 01:23:15,840
from the national institutes of health i

2099
01:23:21,350 --> 01:23:18,000
mean the national institutes of health

2100
01:23:25,110 --> 01:23:21,360
annual budget is 44 billion dollars or

2101
01:23:28,950 --> 01:23:25,120
43 billion dollars in thereabouts um

2102
01:23:30,550 --> 01:23:28,960
even if a small subset of of that were

2103
01:23:34,470 --> 01:23:30,560
devoted to

2104
01:23:36,629 --> 01:23:34,480
um effects long-term effects in terms of

2105
01:23:38,950 --> 01:23:36,639
uh psychological effects

2106
01:23:40,709 --> 01:23:38,960
sociological effects

2107
01:23:43,990 --> 01:23:40,719
physical effects

2108
01:23:46,870 --> 01:23:44,000
medical effects of ufos i think that

2109
01:23:48,709 --> 01:23:46,880
would be a window into this phenomenon

2110
01:23:51,669 --> 01:23:48,719
if the national science

2111
01:23:54,790 --> 01:23:51,679
foundation were able to fund a say a

2112
01:23:56,950 --> 01:23:54,800
10-year program that was would focus on

2113
01:23:57,990 --> 01:23:56,960
you know getting to the heart of what

2114
01:23:59,910 --> 01:23:58,000
this

2115
01:24:02,950 --> 01:23:59,920
ufo performance

2116
01:24:06,149 --> 01:24:02,960
all of the physics associated with uh

2117
01:24:07,270 --> 01:24:06,159
with ufos and come up with a theoretical

2118
01:24:09,830 --> 01:24:07,280
model

2119
01:24:11,750 --> 01:24:09,840
based on actual data

2120
01:24:14,629 --> 01:24:11,760
that is really where where i think this

2121
01:24:16,390 --> 01:24:14,639
whole thing should be going because we

2122
01:24:18,070 --> 01:24:16,400
are unfortunately

2123
01:24:19,510 --> 01:24:18,080
in the situation

2124
01:24:22,390 --> 01:24:19,520
where we've had

2125
01:24:25,189 --> 01:24:22,400
small sort of programs that are trying

2126
01:24:28,229 --> 01:24:25,199
to do something um and then they get

2127
01:24:29,669 --> 01:24:28,239
truncated or aborted and

2128
01:24:31,430 --> 01:24:29,679
you know there's a certain amount of

2129
01:24:33,510 --> 01:24:31,440
data that comes out

2130
01:24:37,590 --> 01:24:33,520
i think all we know at the end of the

2131
01:24:38,950 --> 01:24:37,600
day is that what looks like some kind of

2132
01:24:41,430 --> 01:24:38,960
intelligence

2133
01:24:42,390 --> 01:24:41,440
seems to be interacting with the human

2134
01:24:44,709 --> 01:24:42,400
race

2135
01:24:46,310 --> 01:24:44,719
now is that intelligence living on the

2136
01:24:49,110 --> 01:24:46,320
planet since

2137
01:24:51,669 --> 01:24:49,120
before humans or is it coming from

2138
01:24:54,550 --> 01:24:51,679
another dimension or is it coming from

2139
01:24:57,350 --> 01:24:54,560
another planet um there really is not

2140
01:24:59,750 --> 01:24:57,360
enough data to to come down on either

2141
01:25:03,110 --> 01:24:59,760
side i mean we don't even know

2142
01:25:05,510 --> 01:25:03,120
uh what sort of level of um

2143
01:25:08,070 --> 01:25:05,520
you know um

2144
01:25:09,510 --> 01:25:08,080
i i would guess agenda

2145
01:25:11,189 --> 01:25:09,520
um or

2146
01:25:13,510 --> 01:25:11,199
you know what what this what is going to

2147
01:25:16,550 --> 01:25:13,520
happen with this this phenomenon in the

2148
01:25:19,030 --> 01:25:16,560
future as it continues interacting with

2149
01:25:22,070 --> 01:25:19,040
with humans it seems like over the last

2150
01:25:24,790 --> 01:25:22,080
75 years there seemed to have been sort

2151
01:25:27,030 --> 01:25:24,800
of a set of different waves

2152
01:25:29,110 --> 01:25:27,040
associated with how this uh this

2153
01:25:31,990 --> 01:25:29,120
phenomenon has been interacting with

2154
01:25:35,030 --> 01:25:32,000
humans but again we're looking through

2155
01:25:36,550 --> 01:25:35,040
sort of very sort of distorted

2156
01:25:37,510 --> 01:25:36,560
viewpoints you know i'll give you one

2157
01:25:39,910 --> 01:25:37,520
example

2158
01:25:41,669 --> 01:25:39,920
uh during the asap program we

2159
01:25:44,950 --> 01:25:41,679
interviewed uh

2160
01:25:46,870 --> 01:25:44,960
colonel barry hennessey who is a legend

2161
01:25:48,310 --> 01:25:46,880
at air force office of special

2162
01:25:51,270 --> 01:25:48,320
investigations

2163
01:25:53,189 --> 01:25:51,280
also known as afos ipj

2164
01:25:56,950 --> 01:25:53,199
and one of the things that he said was

2165
01:25:59,430 --> 01:25:56,960
yes of course the air force utilized the

2166
01:26:02,870 --> 01:25:59,440
uh the ufo phenomenon back in the 70s

2167
01:26:05,510 --> 01:26:02,880
and 80s uh to disguise you know some of

2168
01:26:07,750 --> 01:26:05,520
our really advanced technology programs

2169
01:26:11,110 --> 01:26:07,760
you know when when an advanced version

2170
01:26:12,390 --> 01:26:11,120
of a an aircraft crashed in in northern

2171
01:26:15,990 --> 01:26:12,400
new mexico

2172
01:26:18,470 --> 01:26:16,000
in the uh in the 80s you know we did a

2173
01:26:21,030 --> 01:26:18,480
lot of sort of behind the scene

2174
01:26:24,550 --> 01:26:21,040
amplifying the idea that ufos were

2175
01:26:27,350 --> 01:26:24,560
involved in order to cover the tracks of

2176
01:26:29,590 --> 01:26:27,360
a a very advanced part of a special

2177
01:26:31,750 --> 01:26:29,600
access program had crashed in northern

2178
01:26:34,149 --> 01:26:31,760
new mexico so

2179
01:26:36,790 --> 01:26:34,159
we know also from interviewing colonel

2180
01:26:40,310 --> 01:26:36,800
hennessey that some of the so-called

2181
01:26:42,470 --> 01:26:40,320
northern tier intrusions of ufos into

2182
01:26:45,350 --> 01:26:42,480
the northern tier

2183
01:26:47,110 --> 01:26:45,360
air force bases the missile bases that

2184
01:26:48,629 --> 01:26:47,120
dot along the northern part of the

2185
01:26:51,030 --> 01:26:48,639
united states

2186
01:26:52,470 --> 01:26:51,040
near the canadian border some of those

2187
01:26:55,510 --> 01:26:52,480
were actually

2188
01:26:58,709 --> 01:26:55,520
um ours they were they were in intrusion

2189
01:27:01,669 --> 01:26:58,719
detection operations to see how

2190
01:27:04,790 --> 01:27:01,679
ready the uh the air force bases were in

2191
01:27:07,669 --> 01:27:04,800
terms of reacting to unknowns coming

2192
01:27:09,910 --> 01:27:07,679
over but colonel hennessey also told us

2193
01:27:11,270 --> 01:27:09,920
some of the intrusions that happened

2194
01:27:13,750 --> 01:27:11,280
were not ours

2195
01:27:15,750 --> 01:27:13,760
you know it was like we have no idea who

2196
01:27:18,229 --> 01:27:15,760
they were they were certainly not ours

2197
01:27:21,030 --> 01:27:18,239
but we don't know like who they were so

2198
01:27:21,910 --> 01:27:21,040
you have this sort of constant sort of

2199
01:27:24,310 --> 01:27:21,920
um

2200
01:27:27,030 --> 01:27:24,320
ambiguity regarding

2201
01:27:28,470 --> 01:27:27,040
who owns what's what's going on is it

2202
01:27:29,990 --> 01:27:28,480
ours or

2203
01:27:30,790 --> 01:27:30,000
or is it theirs

2204
01:27:33,590 --> 01:27:30,800
i mean

2205
01:27:37,270 --> 01:27:33,600
one of the one of the the analytical

2206
01:27:40,149 --> 01:27:37,280
sort of tools that we've used at uh at

2207
01:27:42,390 --> 01:27:40,159
the end of osap was we we used this sort

2208
01:27:44,310 --> 01:27:42,400
of idea that there was there's two

2209
01:27:45,510 --> 01:27:44,320
levels of deception

2210
01:27:46,790 --> 01:27:45,520
going on

2211
01:27:48,629 --> 01:27:46,800
you know with the with the ufo

2212
01:27:51,030 --> 01:27:48,639
phenomenon what is the level of

2213
01:27:53,669 --> 01:27:51,040
deception where the united states

2214
01:27:57,110 --> 01:27:53,679
government and military is deceiving the

2215
01:27:59,750 --> 01:27:57,120
public in terms of mimicking the ufo uh

2216
01:28:02,470 --> 01:27:59,760
phenomenon for their own purposes in

2217
01:28:04,870 --> 01:28:02,480
terms of operational security and then

2218
01:28:06,950 --> 01:28:04,880
there's the other side of the phenomenon

2219
01:28:09,590 --> 01:28:06,960
where the phenomenon appears to be

2220
01:28:12,310 --> 01:28:09,600
mimicking some of our special access

2221
01:28:14,149 --> 01:28:12,320
programs for example these

2222
01:28:16,950 --> 01:28:14,159
the eruption of the large black

2223
01:28:19,750 --> 01:28:16,960
triangles that happened um throughout

2224
01:28:23,590 --> 01:28:19,760
the united states through europe in many

2225
01:28:27,189 --> 01:28:23,600
places in south america um all of these

2226
01:28:29,910 --> 01:28:27,199
huge triangles um seem to be

2227
01:28:31,990 --> 01:28:29,920
very closely aligned what with a lot of

2228
01:28:33,750 --> 01:28:32,000
people would have imagined were special

2229
01:28:36,390 --> 01:28:33,760
access programs of the united states

2230
01:28:38,629 --> 01:28:36,400
military but at the same time you know

2231
01:28:40,950 --> 01:28:38,639
there were hundreds of cases that were

2232
01:28:43,030 --> 01:28:40,960
mapped and investigated by our our

2233
01:28:46,070 --> 01:28:43,040
organization national institute for

2234
01:28:47,830 --> 01:28:46,080
discovery science and osap

2235
01:28:51,110 --> 01:28:47,840
that documented these large black

2236
01:28:53,750 --> 01:28:51,120
triangles that were floating at very low

2237
01:28:57,510 --> 01:28:53,760
altitudes brightly lit

2238
01:29:00,550 --> 01:28:57,520
over populated areas are down interstate

2239
01:29:03,270 --> 01:29:00,560
highways now why would a special access

2240
01:29:06,310 --> 01:29:03,280
program that was sort of top of the line

2241
01:29:10,470 --> 01:29:06,320
technology by the united states military

2242
01:29:14,149 --> 01:29:10,480
being so foolhardy as to um you know be

2243
01:29:17,270 --> 01:29:14,159
flying over populated areas fully lit uh

2244
01:29:19,990 --> 01:29:17,280
with bright lights um and and sometimes

2245
01:29:22,550 --> 01:29:20,000
altitudes reported by eyewitnesses a

2246
01:29:25,270 --> 01:29:22,560
couple of hundred feet i mean that is a

2247
01:29:28,070 --> 01:29:25,280
gross violation of national security

2248
01:29:29,910 --> 01:29:28,080
parameters of special access programs

2249
01:29:33,030 --> 01:29:29,920
but yet there are hundreds and hundreds

2250
01:29:35,669 --> 01:29:33,040
of cases of these that were very very

2251
01:29:37,590 --> 01:29:35,679
well documented by both national

2252
01:29:39,830 --> 01:29:37,600
institute for discovery science and

2253
01:29:41,270 --> 01:29:39,840
biolsat i mean the case that i talked

2254
01:29:42,950 --> 01:29:41,280
about in um

2255
01:29:45,430 --> 01:29:42,960
in uh uh

2256
01:29:47,430 --> 01:29:45,440
in georgia involving this very large

2257
01:29:49,910 --> 01:29:47,440
black triangle that was literally

2258
01:29:53,430 --> 01:29:49,920
floating over this guy's uh neighborhood

2259
01:29:55,030 --> 01:29:53,440
that happened in 2009 i mean it was you

2260
01:29:57,830 --> 01:29:55,040
know it was not sort of way back in

2261
01:29:59,430 --> 01:29:57,840
history it was relatively recent but we

2262
01:30:01,990 --> 01:29:59,440
have these

2263
01:30:03,189 --> 01:30:02,000
um during the sort of investigative

2264
01:30:06,070 --> 01:30:03,199
process

2265
01:30:08,870 --> 01:30:06,080
uh we have these two layers of deception

2266
01:30:11,510 --> 01:30:08,880
that we always have to look through in

2267
01:30:15,510 --> 01:30:11,520
order to get to the the data regarding

2268
01:30:18,550 --> 01:30:15,520
ufos and that's not like a normal aspect

2269
01:30:19,750 --> 01:30:18,560
of scientific uh you know research or

2270
01:30:22,070 --> 01:30:19,760
analysis

2271
01:30:24,790 --> 01:30:22,080
normally in the field of biology or in

2272
01:30:26,070 --> 01:30:24,800
the field of physics you are not looking

2273
01:30:28,470 --> 01:30:26,080
through data

2274
01:30:31,030 --> 01:30:28,480
or at data through a couple of layers of

2275
01:30:33,270 --> 01:30:31,040
deception i mean it makes a thing it

2276
01:30:36,229 --> 01:30:33,280
makes things very very difficult

2277
01:30:40,310 --> 01:30:36,239
um of applying the scientific method to

2278
01:30:45,910 --> 01:30:43,510
george anything to add to that

2279
01:30:48,629 --> 01:30:45,920
no just uh sort of uh playing off of

2280
01:30:50,470 --> 01:30:48,639
what i i said to begin with is you know

2281
01:30:52,629 --> 01:30:50,480
as a journalist i've tried to get my

2282
01:30:54,149 --> 01:30:52,639
head around this and i've had

2283
01:30:56,390 --> 01:30:54,159
investigated it

2284
01:30:58,709 --> 01:30:56,400
for more than 30 years and i don't have

2285
01:31:00,550 --> 01:30:58,719
the answers to it the best uh the best

2286
01:31:03,270 --> 01:31:00,560
evidence for me what got me interested

2287
01:31:04,950 --> 01:31:03,280
in the subject is the paper trail our

2288
01:31:07,189 --> 01:31:04,960
government has known for a long time

2289
01:31:09,510 --> 01:31:07,199
these things are real and i know the

2290
01:31:11,830 --> 01:31:09,520
scientific community the journalism

2291
01:31:13,590 --> 01:31:11,840
industry have both dismissed it they've

2292
01:31:15,669 --> 01:31:13,600
laughed at it they've disregarded it

2293
01:31:18,149 --> 01:31:15,679
they paid it very little attention over

2294
01:31:20,149 --> 01:31:18,159
many decades but our government our

2295
01:31:21,910 --> 01:31:20,159
military specifically knows this is real

2296
01:31:23,270 --> 01:31:21,920
they've known it for a long time and you

2297
01:31:25,270 --> 01:31:23,280
can trace it

2298
01:31:27,510 --> 01:31:25,280
through this paper trail of documents

2299
01:31:29,350 --> 01:31:27,520
internal reports many of them written

2300
01:31:31,430 --> 01:31:29,360
before the freedom of information act

2301
01:31:34,070 --> 01:31:31,440
exists in which they admit to each other

2302
01:31:36,149 --> 01:31:34,080
candidly in documents that they never

2303
01:31:38,149 --> 01:31:36,159
thought would ever see the light of day

2304
01:31:39,910 --> 01:31:38,159
this is real it's not ours we don't

2305
01:31:42,149 --> 01:31:39,920
think it's russians it can do things we

2306
01:31:43,990 --> 01:31:42,159
can't do we need to figure this out and

2307
01:31:45,750 --> 01:31:44,000
ever since then there have been studies

2308
01:31:47,430 --> 01:31:45,760
of it i have followed that paper trail

2309
01:31:49,030 --> 01:31:47,440
and others have as well

2310
01:31:51,110 --> 01:31:49,040
there's a legitimate mystery here that

2311
01:31:52,950 --> 01:31:51,120
needs to be figured out it hasn't been

2312
01:31:56,390 --> 01:31:52,960
figured out it's been

2313
01:31:59,030 --> 01:31:56,400
dismissed and ridiculed and laughed at

2314
01:32:00,629 --> 01:31:59,040
and now because of some of the

2315
01:32:03,350 --> 01:32:00,639
information that's come forward and been

2316
01:32:06,629 --> 01:32:03,360
made public by the likes of dr collin

2317
01:32:09,430 --> 01:32:06,639
kelleher dr hal put off dr kit green dr

2318
01:32:12,310 --> 01:32:09,440
eric davis jacques ballet edgar mitchell

2319
01:32:14,149 --> 01:32:12,320
serious scientists serious professionals

2320
01:32:15,830 --> 01:32:14,159
who've had the courage to look at this

2321
01:32:16,629 --> 01:32:15,840
and then allowed me to be a fly on the

2322
01:32:18,070 --> 01:32:16,639
wall

2323
01:32:19,030 --> 01:32:18,080
there's a lot of progress that's been

2324
01:32:20,950 --> 01:32:19,040
made

2325
01:32:23,430 --> 01:32:20,960
hopefully that will continue but you

2326
01:32:26,149 --> 01:32:23,440
can't just ignore it and ridicule it um

2327
01:32:28,550 --> 01:32:26,159
your viewers uh kurt the people who

2328
01:32:29,669 --> 01:32:28,560
listen to your program big brain people

2329
01:32:31,510 --> 01:32:29,679
like that

2330
01:32:34,229 --> 01:32:31,520
need to take a look at this it's a

2331
01:32:36,870 --> 01:32:34,239
legitimate mystery it really is going on

2332
01:32:38,550 --> 01:32:36,880
it may be central to human existence uh

2333
01:32:40,629 --> 01:32:38,560
it may be the biggest question we ever

2334
01:32:42,629 --> 01:32:40,639
tackle once we figure it out it will

2335
01:32:44,550 --> 01:32:42,639
change everything we're already

2336
01:32:46,310 --> 01:32:44,560
undergoing some changes because of the

2337
01:32:48,470 --> 01:32:46,320
revelations of the last four years and

2338
01:32:50,229 --> 01:32:48,480
it's a worthwhile endeavor

2339
01:32:51,830 --> 01:32:50,239
we need to fund it it needs to be

2340
01:32:54,709 --> 01:32:51,840
studied we need to figure this out

2341
01:32:56,229 --> 01:32:54,719
that's what i would add you mentioned

2342
01:32:58,149 --> 01:32:56,239
that there are black helicopters that

2343
01:33:00,310 --> 01:32:58,159
follow a ufo sighting

2344
01:33:01,750 --> 01:33:00,320
do you think these helicopters are part

2345
01:33:03,430 --> 01:33:01,760
of the phenomenon or do you think that

2346
01:33:05,189 --> 01:33:03,440
they're government related is the

2347
01:33:06,229 --> 01:33:05,199
government tracking picking up some

2348
01:33:07,750 --> 01:33:06,239
trace

2349
01:33:09,510 --> 01:33:07,760
what is the purpose if you were to

2350
01:33:11,350 --> 01:33:09,520
speculate off obviously when we're

2351
01:33:12,950 --> 01:33:11,360
talking about this topic all of it is

2352
01:33:15,750 --> 01:33:12,960
speculation anyway or most of it is

2353
01:33:17,830 --> 01:33:15,760
speculation my guess is it's both it's

2354
01:33:19,590 --> 01:33:17,840
both the phenomena

2355
01:33:22,229 --> 01:33:19,600
that assumes different shapes these

2356
01:33:24,070 --> 01:33:22,239
things these craft the beings themselves

2357
01:33:26,310 --> 01:33:24,080
are shape shifters we have a lot of

2358
01:33:28,149 --> 01:33:26,320
anecdotal evidence over a long period of

2359
01:33:29,830 --> 01:33:28,159
time that they can change their shape

2360
01:33:32,390 --> 01:33:29,840
and i think some of them appear in the

2361
01:33:34,310 --> 01:33:32,400
sky as black helicopters at the site of

2362
01:33:36,550 --> 01:33:34,320
for example cattle mutilations which is

2363
01:33:38,310 --> 01:33:36,560
a whole other topic we can get into

2364
01:33:39,910 --> 01:33:38,320
and then there are government uh

2365
01:33:42,390 --> 01:33:39,920
operatives who are monitoring the

2366
01:33:45,510 --> 01:33:42,400
phenomena themselves who assume that

2367
01:33:47,189 --> 01:33:45,520
same thing who operate uh and they know

2368
01:33:50,070 --> 01:33:47,199
that it's going to be dismissed to some

2369
01:33:52,390 --> 01:33:50,080
weird conspiracy some ufo-related uh

2370
01:33:53,669 --> 01:33:52,400
sighting they can operate with impunity

2371
01:33:56,070 --> 01:33:53,679
knowing that there won't be any real

2372
01:33:57,910 --> 01:33:56,080
investigation by science or the media

2373
01:34:00,709 --> 01:33:57,920
because it's conspiracy stuff you know

2374
01:34:02,390 --> 01:34:00,719
it's wild wacky conspiracy stories i

2375
01:34:04,550 --> 01:34:02,400
think in many cases the black

2376
01:34:06,310 --> 01:34:04,560
helicopters are both some unknown

2377
01:34:08,310 --> 01:34:06,320
phenomena assuming that shape and our

2378
01:34:10,390 --> 01:34:08,320
government monitoring that phenomenon

2379
01:34:11,910 --> 01:34:10,400
column

2380
01:34:15,270 --> 01:34:11,920
yeah uh

2381
01:34:17,910 --> 01:34:15,280
back in the uh in the nids era

2382
01:34:19,830 --> 01:34:17,920
we we have we were very fortunate to

2383
01:34:21,030 --> 01:34:19,840
meet a guy called captain keith

2384
01:34:23,430 --> 01:34:21,040
wolverton

2385
01:34:25,990 --> 01:34:23,440
um who was stationed in cache county

2386
01:34:29,750 --> 01:34:26,000
just outside milestone air force base

2387
01:34:31,990 --> 01:34:29,760
in the uh in in the 70s and 80s and

2388
01:34:35,189 --> 01:34:32,000
you know monster air force base is

2389
01:34:36,310 --> 01:34:35,199
legendary in the ufo uh

2390
01:34:38,070 --> 01:34:36,320
annals

2391
01:34:41,430 --> 01:34:38,080
because there have been so many

2392
01:34:43,669 --> 01:34:41,440
incidents where um low-flying ufos have

2393
01:34:45,910 --> 01:34:43,679
been documented around marston air force

2394
01:34:50,470 --> 01:34:45,920
base including during the late late

2395
01:34:53,590 --> 01:34:50,480
1960s of of the actual missile launch

2396
01:34:56,149 --> 01:34:53,600
parameters being interfered with by ufos

2397
01:34:57,750 --> 01:34:56,159
all of that is well documented in books

2398
01:35:00,390 --> 01:34:57,760
um but

2399
01:35:02,870 --> 01:35:00,400
what really struck us in talking with uh

2400
01:35:05,590 --> 01:35:02,880
captain keith wolverton was that he

2401
01:35:08,149 --> 01:35:05,600
became uh friendly with the base

2402
01:35:10,709 --> 01:35:08,159
commander at bolster murph over space

2403
01:35:13,189 --> 01:35:10,719
and so he the police force around

2404
01:35:16,790 --> 01:35:13,199
malston air force base began a very

2405
01:35:19,189 --> 01:35:16,800
close level of cooperation between uh

2406
01:35:21,510 --> 01:35:19,199
the police and the um and the military

2407
01:35:24,470 --> 01:35:21,520
people on the air force base so anytime

2408
01:35:27,030 --> 01:35:24,480
a ufo would show up um

2409
01:35:30,149 --> 01:35:27,040
captain keith wolverton knew about it

2410
01:35:32,709 --> 01:35:30,159
and so he was able to document over time

2411
01:35:34,790 --> 01:35:32,719
um there would be sometimes uh jet

2412
01:35:37,910 --> 01:35:34,800
aircraft launched from melson air force

2413
01:35:40,470 --> 01:35:37,920
base to try to intercept these ufos but

2414
01:35:43,590 --> 01:35:40,480
one of the really weird features that

2415
01:35:46,870 --> 01:35:43,600
happened during this wave of ufo

2416
01:35:49,750 --> 01:35:46,880
activity was that side by side

2417
01:35:53,350 --> 01:35:49,760
with this wave of ufo activity it was

2418
01:35:56,310 --> 01:35:53,360
also a wave of helicopters that neither

2419
01:35:58,310 --> 01:35:56,320
the air force based personnel or the

2420
01:35:59,790 --> 01:35:58,320
police force that were tasked with

2421
01:36:04,470 --> 01:35:59,800
investigating

2422
01:36:06,709 --> 01:36:04,480
had had any idea where they were coming

2423
01:36:09,350 --> 01:36:06,719
from now i'm not talking about one or

2424
01:36:12,149 --> 01:36:09,360
two signings of helicopters i'm talking

2425
01:36:14,310 --> 01:36:12,159
about somewhere between 50 and 100

2426
01:36:16,950 --> 01:36:14,320
separate sightings of these

2427
01:36:20,390 --> 01:36:16,960
quote-unquote black helicopters that

2428
01:36:23,830 --> 01:36:20,400
seem to show up in the aftermath of uh

2429
01:36:26,870 --> 01:36:23,840
ufos and layered on top of that

2430
01:36:29,430 --> 01:36:26,880
according to cat captain keith wolverton

2431
01:36:32,550 --> 01:36:29,440
was there was a a literal

2432
01:36:35,110 --> 01:36:32,560
explosion of unusual phenomena in

2433
01:36:38,070 --> 01:36:35,120
people's homes and around the area

2434
01:36:39,990 --> 01:36:38,080
within a 10 20 mile radius of mass from

2435
01:36:42,229 --> 01:36:40,000
air force base but the point i'm trying

2436
01:36:45,109 --> 01:36:42,239
to make is that

2437
01:36:48,629 --> 01:36:45,119
the air force based commander was well

2438
01:36:51,189 --> 01:36:48,639
aware of the of these black helicopters

2439
01:36:53,590 --> 01:36:51,199
and he had the wherewithal to be able to

2440
01:36:56,229 --> 01:36:53,600
track of where these helicopters were

2441
01:36:59,350 --> 01:36:56,239
coming from and he ran into a brick wall

2442
01:37:02,229 --> 01:36:59,360
i mean he simply could not have uh any

2443
01:37:04,790 --> 01:37:02,239
information on why these dozens and

2444
01:37:08,070 --> 01:37:04,800
dozens of black helicopters were showing

2445
01:37:10,550 --> 01:37:08,080
up around uh miles from air force base

2446
01:37:12,950 --> 01:37:10,560
usually in the aftermath of ufo

2447
01:37:15,830 --> 01:37:12,960
sightings and launching fighter aircraft

2448
01:37:18,550 --> 01:37:15,840
to intercept these ufo sightings so

2449
01:37:21,830 --> 01:37:18,560
that's it one example of what what i'm

2450
01:37:23,990 --> 01:37:21,840
talking about so we have these

2451
01:37:26,790 --> 01:37:24,000
um this ambiguity

2452
01:37:29,750 --> 01:37:26,800
um regarding these helicopters

2453
01:37:30,550 --> 01:37:29,760
who owns them who is who is uh flying

2454
01:37:32,709 --> 01:37:30,560
them

2455
01:37:35,030 --> 01:37:32,719
and why are they around i mean some of

2456
01:37:37,109 --> 01:37:35,040
them are obviously united states

2457
01:37:40,790 --> 01:37:37,119
military and some of them actually have

2458
01:37:43,350 --> 01:37:40,800
been tracked to various locations um

2459
01:37:46,550 --> 01:37:43,360
that that they are obviously us military

2460
01:37:49,350 --> 01:37:46,560
uh helicopters but others um are just

2461
01:37:51,910 --> 01:37:49,360
they kind of seem to disappear into the

2462
01:37:54,709 --> 01:37:51,920
into the woodwork and um there is a big

2463
01:37:56,790 --> 01:37:54,719
question mark about about their origins

2464
01:37:57,990 --> 01:37:56,800
so in answer to your question i would

2465
01:38:00,470 --> 01:37:58,000
say both

2466
01:38:03,350 --> 01:38:00,480
they're uh they're they're both united

2467
01:38:05,750 --> 01:38:03,360
states military and they're both

2468
01:38:07,350 --> 01:38:05,760
from somewhere else

2469
01:38:09,590 --> 01:38:07,360
is there any evidence that the cattle

2470
01:38:10,790 --> 01:38:09,600
mutilations are

2471
01:38:14,550 --> 01:38:10,800
because of the government that the

2472
01:38:19,830 --> 01:38:18,629
well that's a long long story i i

2473
01:38:22,629 --> 01:38:19,840
i i mean

2474
01:38:24,709 --> 01:38:22,639
awesome did not do any investigations of

2475
01:38:26,790 --> 01:38:24,719
cattle mutilations there were two

2476
01:38:28,070 --> 01:38:26,800
uh there were two aspects that we

2477
01:38:30,629 --> 01:38:28,080
decided

2478
01:38:33,350 --> 01:38:30,639
um and the defense intelligence agency

2479
01:38:36,070 --> 01:38:33,360
decided we would not spend a lot of time

2480
01:38:37,669 --> 01:38:36,080
and resources actually three of them uh

2481
01:38:39,830 --> 01:38:37,679
one was the remote viewing that i've

2482
01:38:43,109 --> 01:38:39,840
already discussed the second was the

2483
01:38:46,550 --> 01:38:43,119
calamus mutilation phenomenon and the

2484
01:38:49,750 --> 01:38:46,560
third one was we we decided not to

2485
01:38:52,629 --> 01:38:49,760
um recruit a whole team to investigate

2486
01:38:55,109 --> 01:38:52,639
uh ufo of quote-unquote abductions

2487
01:38:58,149 --> 01:38:55,119
because again that required an enormous

2488
01:39:00,390 --> 01:38:58,159
amount of uh resources that i know that

2489
01:39:03,189 --> 01:39:00,400
we knew at the time were not going to be

2490
01:39:07,669 --> 01:39:03,199
available so cattle mutilations were not

2491
01:39:09,750 --> 01:39:07,679
investigated by the uh the osap program

2492
01:39:13,510 --> 01:39:09,760
but um back in the national institute

2493
01:39:16,310 --> 01:39:13,520
for discovery science era we actually

2494
01:39:17,350 --> 01:39:16,320
did a lot of forensic investigations

2495
01:39:20,870 --> 01:39:17,360
of

2496
01:39:23,990 --> 01:39:20,880
cattle mutilations and again i refer to

2497
01:39:24,790 --> 01:39:24,000
the ned's website which you can find

2498
01:39:26,070 --> 01:39:24,800
by

2499
01:39:27,590 --> 01:39:26,080
googling national institute for

2500
01:39:30,790 --> 01:39:27,600
discovery science

2501
01:39:33,350 --> 01:39:30,800
uh on wikipedia

2502
01:39:36,470 --> 01:39:33,360
and there are dozens of reports

2503
01:39:39,189 --> 01:39:36,480
of ned's investigations of calculations

2504
01:39:41,510 --> 01:39:39,199
on i will cut to the chase basically and

2505
01:39:42,709 --> 01:39:41,520
say that

2506
01:39:44,950 --> 01:39:42,719
we

2507
01:39:48,070 --> 01:39:44,960
literally investigated dozens of

2508
01:39:50,390 --> 01:39:48,080
mutilations how do we investigate these

2509
01:39:51,669 --> 01:39:50,400
we actually had full-time veterinarian

2510
01:39:54,229 --> 01:39:51,679
on our staff

2511
01:39:57,669 --> 01:39:54,239
that veterinarian who was also a phd in

2512
01:40:01,189 --> 01:39:57,679
pathology so who was well used to doing

2513
01:40:02,310 --> 01:40:01,199
necropsies uh you know animal autopsies

2514
01:40:05,109 --> 01:40:02,320
and so

2515
01:40:07,030 --> 01:40:05,119
our our sort of bottom line was that

2516
01:40:08,790 --> 01:40:07,040
cattle mutilations

2517
01:40:11,510 --> 01:40:08,800
there was a body

2518
01:40:13,590 --> 01:40:11,520
of evidence that was lying on the ground

2519
01:40:16,870 --> 01:40:13,600
and if we could get to that

2520
01:40:19,750 --> 01:40:16,880
that body quick enough after death that

2521
01:40:22,950 --> 01:40:19,760
we might be able to get some answers

2522
01:40:25,590 --> 01:40:22,960
so we evolved over many years a

2523
01:40:28,310 --> 01:40:25,600
situation where we had a bunch of

2524
01:40:30,790 --> 01:40:28,320
veterinarians who were accredited

2525
01:40:31,990 --> 01:40:30,800
veterinarians on call we had a bunch of

2526
01:40:34,310 --> 01:40:32,000
police

2527
01:40:35,750 --> 01:40:34,320
officers throughout the western states

2528
01:40:39,030 --> 01:40:35,760
in the united states

2529
01:40:41,030 --> 01:40:39,040
also on call so we were able to get um

2530
01:40:43,430 --> 01:40:41,040
reports of calculations

2531
01:40:45,990 --> 01:40:43,440
extremely quickly and the third thing

2532
01:40:47,750 --> 01:40:46,000
that we had was that we had a menu

2533
01:40:50,950 --> 01:40:47,760
of laboratory

2534
01:40:52,870 --> 01:40:50,960
uh analytical laboratories at our on on

2535
01:40:55,910 --> 01:40:52,880
call on speed dial

2536
01:40:57,270 --> 01:40:55,920
so that if we did manage to get samples

2537
01:41:00,070 --> 01:40:57,280
we would we were able to do

2538
01:41:02,550 --> 01:41:00,080
histopathology analysis we were able to

2539
01:41:05,830 --> 01:41:02,560
do chemical analysis biochemical

2540
01:41:07,910 --> 01:41:05,840
analysis and you know uh pretty well all

2541
01:41:10,390 --> 01:41:07,920
of the different analytical frameworks

2542
01:41:12,470 --> 01:41:10,400
so uh we were pretty well equipped at

2543
01:41:14,709 --> 01:41:12,480
the end of ned's to be able to

2544
01:41:17,430 --> 01:41:14,719
investigate cattle mutilations

2545
01:41:19,669 --> 01:41:17,440
and what we found was that there was

2546
01:41:20,950 --> 01:41:19,679
a really two two two types of

2547
01:41:23,590 --> 01:41:20,960
mutilations

2548
01:41:27,350 --> 01:41:23,600
once one was the standard sort of

2549
01:41:31,030 --> 01:41:27,360
mutilation where the uh the eye the ear

2550
01:41:34,149 --> 01:41:31,040
uh the uh sex organs uh were were

2551
01:41:36,310 --> 01:41:34,159
removed from the animal

2552
01:41:38,149 --> 01:41:36,320
and you know during that situat that

2553
01:41:40,229 --> 01:41:38,159
that that uh

2554
01:41:43,430 --> 01:41:40,239
program for for niz

2555
01:41:46,070 --> 01:41:43,440
we did a lot of analytical chemistry we

2556
01:41:48,950 --> 01:41:46,080
did uh elemental analysis of the blood

2557
01:41:51,590 --> 01:41:48,960
from mutilated animals occasionally we

2558
01:41:54,550 --> 01:41:51,600
found what looked like sedatives we used

2559
01:41:56,310 --> 01:41:54,560
gas chromatography mass spectrometry we

2560
01:41:59,910 --> 01:41:56,320
used liquid chromatography mass

2561
01:42:02,310 --> 01:41:59,920
spectrometry we used inductive coupled

2562
01:42:04,790 --> 01:42:02,320
plasma mass spectrometry to german

2563
01:42:07,350 --> 01:42:04,800
elemental analysis so we threw the

2564
01:42:10,390 --> 01:42:07,360
kitchen sink in terms of analytical

2565
01:42:13,669 --> 01:42:10,400
capability at what was in these animals

2566
01:42:15,990 --> 01:42:13,679
following necropsy we also did histology

2567
01:42:18,390 --> 01:42:16,000
analysis and we determined that yes

2568
01:42:21,510 --> 01:42:18,400
sharp instruments were used but some of

2569
01:42:25,910 --> 01:42:21,520
the time we used uh we were able to

2570
01:42:28,950 --> 01:42:25,920
document um compounds like oxandole

2571
01:42:32,229 --> 01:42:28,960
succinal choline which are sedatives

2572
01:42:35,189 --> 01:42:32,239
so that made us suspicious on on other

2573
01:42:39,030 --> 01:42:35,199
occasions including investigations up in

2574
01:42:41,910 --> 01:42:39,040
montana uh we were able to locate

2575
01:42:43,270 --> 01:42:41,920
um you know 10 gauge needles that were

2576
01:42:44,070 --> 01:42:43,280
found under

2577
01:42:49,030 --> 01:42:44,080
the

2578
01:42:52,310 --> 01:42:49,040
were able to find medical paraphernalia

2579
01:42:55,270 --> 01:42:52,320
associated with exsanguinating an animal

2580
01:42:57,990 --> 01:42:55,280
in other words hooking up an animal to

2581
01:43:00,790 --> 01:42:58,000
a large gage needle and removing all the

2582
01:43:02,950 --> 01:43:00,800
blood from the animal so we began to get

2583
01:43:05,669 --> 01:43:02,960
suspicious as time went on that there

2584
01:43:08,229 --> 01:43:05,679
was a pattern associated with some of

2585
01:43:09,590 --> 01:43:08,239
these cases so we we put out the

2586
01:43:12,629 --> 01:43:09,600
hypothesis

2587
01:43:14,709 --> 01:43:12,639
that you know maybe this was part of

2588
01:43:17,109 --> 01:43:14,719
a a case of

2589
01:43:20,470 --> 01:43:17,119
um you know applying sedatives to the

2590
01:43:23,109 --> 01:43:20,480
animals um and then investigating these

2591
01:43:24,790 --> 01:43:23,119
animals for the spread of say an

2592
01:43:27,109 --> 01:43:24,800
infectious disease

2593
01:43:30,070 --> 01:43:27,119
organism and you know a lot of these

2594
01:43:32,950 --> 01:43:30,080
infectious disease could be um through

2595
01:43:36,070 --> 01:43:32,960
the western herds in the united states

2596
01:43:39,109 --> 01:43:36,080
uh we we we investigated or we put out

2597
01:43:41,669 --> 01:43:39,119
the hypothesis that maybe um

2598
01:43:42,950 --> 01:43:41,679
some of these infectious proteins called

2599
01:43:45,669 --> 01:43:42,960
prions

2600
01:43:48,310 --> 01:43:45,679
might have been the source of concern uh

2601
01:43:50,830 --> 01:43:48,320
as they were sort of exploding in the

2602
01:43:53,990 --> 01:43:50,840
united kingdom and europe in the

2603
01:43:56,550 --> 01:43:54,000
1990s um and killing a lot of people who

2604
01:43:58,390 --> 01:43:56,560
were eating contaminated meat so there

2605
01:44:00,470 --> 01:43:58,400
might have been a small

2606
01:44:02,629 --> 01:44:00,480
very very small program all you need is

2607
01:44:05,669 --> 01:44:02,639
a couple of trained veterinarians a

2608
01:44:08,550 --> 01:44:05,679
couple of skill surgeons um a couple of

2609
01:44:10,870 --> 01:44:08,560
helicopters a very small program in

2610
01:44:14,390 --> 01:44:10,880
other words that could monitor

2611
01:44:16,390 --> 01:44:14,400
um the spread of an infectious organism

2612
01:44:18,149 --> 01:44:16,400
through the cattle

2613
01:44:21,030 --> 01:44:18,159
in the wild in the western part of the

2614
01:44:22,310 --> 01:44:21,040
united states why would you want to do

2615
01:44:24,390 --> 01:44:22,320
that

2616
01:44:27,189 --> 01:44:24,400
rather than going to

2617
01:44:29,189 --> 01:44:27,199
say slaughterhouses and abattoirs and

2618
01:44:31,270 --> 01:44:29,199
sampling from there

2619
01:44:33,189 --> 01:44:31,280
the answer to that is you would not get

2620
01:44:34,870 --> 01:44:33,199
the same amount of data

2621
01:44:37,750 --> 01:44:34,880
from sampling avatars and

2622
01:44:40,709 --> 01:44:37,760
slaughterhouses as you would by

2623
01:44:43,830 --> 01:44:40,719
flying in at night and you know

2624
01:44:46,629 --> 01:44:43,840
basically sampling animals within you

2625
01:44:48,709 --> 01:44:46,639
know several hundred miles

2626
01:44:50,709 --> 01:44:48,719
if you were trying to track the spread

2627
01:44:53,750 --> 01:44:50,719
of an infectious organism

2628
01:44:56,709 --> 01:44:53,760
prion is what one can one uh

2629
01:44:58,629 --> 01:44:56,719
one an infectious protein that was

2630
01:44:59,750 --> 01:44:58,639
responsible for

2631
01:45:01,910 --> 01:44:59,760
you know

2632
01:45:03,910 --> 01:45:01,920
destruction of millions of animals in

2633
01:45:07,430 --> 01:45:03,920
the united kingdom and europe and it was

2634
01:45:09,510 --> 01:45:07,440
a source of huge amounts of concern in

2635
01:45:12,950 --> 01:45:09,520
the uh in in the united states in the

2636
01:45:17,189 --> 01:45:12,960
1990s as especially the

2637
01:45:18,550 --> 01:45:17,199
um you know the fda on the the usda

2638
01:45:20,870 --> 01:45:18,560
uh the the

2639
01:45:21,830 --> 01:45:20,880
united states department of agriculture

2640
01:45:23,510 --> 01:45:21,840
um

2641
01:45:25,830 --> 01:45:23,520
we're very concerned about the the

2642
01:45:27,830 --> 01:45:25,840
spread of this so um that was one

2643
01:45:29,750 --> 01:45:27,840
hypothesis we came up with why did we

2644
01:45:32,470 --> 01:45:29,760
come up with this because we use

2645
01:45:34,950 --> 01:45:32,480
forensic analysis to determine that

2646
01:45:37,350 --> 01:45:34,960
somebody was using sharp instruments on

2647
01:45:39,590 --> 01:45:37,360
these animals to cut them open

2648
01:45:42,390 --> 01:45:39,600
we found that unequivocally from the

2649
01:45:44,550 --> 01:45:42,400
histopathology analysis and then we

2650
01:45:45,830 --> 01:45:44,560
found all of these suspicious

2651
01:45:46,790 --> 01:45:45,840
compounds

2652
01:45:49,910 --> 01:45:46,800
through

2653
01:45:52,870 --> 01:45:49,920
standard forensic analytical uh

2654
01:45:54,470 --> 01:45:52,880
chemistry and we also found evidence of

2655
01:45:56,950 --> 01:45:54,480
medical hardware

2656
01:45:58,790 --> 01:45:56,960
underneath an associated with a small

2657
01:45:59,669 --> 01:45:58,800
number of these animals so

2658
01:46:02,149 --> 01:45:59,679
um

2659
01:46:04,550 --> 01:46:02,159
you know that we put out this hypothesis

2660
01:46:06,550 --> 01:46:04,560
and again it's these published papers

2661
01:46:09,350 --> 01:46:06,560
are on the news website if people want

2662
01:46:12,149 --> 01:46:09,360
to take a look at them

2663
01:46:14,229 --> 01:46:12,159
let me add this kurt uh please to boil

2664
01:46:17,109 --> 01:46:14,239
that down so column's

2665
01:46:19,830 --> 01:46:17,119
hypothesis was there are two levels of

2666
01:46:21,350 --> 01:46:19,840
mutilators uh mystery mutilators there's

2667
01:46:23,590 --> 01:46:21,360
the original one that's been carrying

2668
01:46:26,310 --> 01:46:23,600
this out for decades under the cover of

2669
01:46:28,390 --> 01:46:26,320
night carving up animals with surgical

2670
01:46:29,430 --> 01:46:28,400
precision removing the same sort of

2671
01:46:32,070 --> 01:46:29,440
parts

2672
01:46:34,229 --> 01:46:32,080
not leaving behind certain compounds not

2673
01:46:35,910 --> 01:46:34,239
leaving behind medical instruments it's

2674
01:46:37,990 --> 01:46:35,920
a complete mystery how it's carried out

2675
01:46:40,070 --> 01:46:38,000
there were some cases where high heat

2676
01:46:41,910 --> 01:46:40,080
instrumentation was used in these cases

2677
01:46:44,149 --> 01:46:41,920
the classic mutilation stories that

2678
01:46:46,149 --> 01:46:44,159
we've always heard nids investigated

2679
01:46:48,470 --> 01:46:46,159
those and and most of the cases they

2680
01:46:50,709 --> 01:46:48,480
investigated did not show these kind of

2681
01:46:52,550 --> 01:46:50,719
telltale signs of human intervention

2682
01:46:54,629 --> 01:46:52,560
someone mystery mutilators have been

2683
01:46:57,750 --> 01:46:54,639
carrying this out for decades over a

2684
01:46:59,990 --> 01:46:57,760
broad uh part of the united states in

2685
01:47:01,990 --> 01:47:00,000
other parts of the world and then later

2686
01:47:04,310 --> 01:47:02,000
there were an additional level of

2687
01:47:06,790 --> 01:47:04,320
mutilators who came in under the

2688
01:47:09,189 --> 01:47:06,800
umbrella of this seemingly paranormal

2689
01:47:10,709 --> 01:47:09,199
mystery who operated with impunity

2690
01:47:11,910 --> 01:47:10,719
thinking they can get away with it no

2691
01:47:13,830 --> 01:47:11,920
one's really going to seriously

2692
01:47:15,510 --> 01:47:13,840
investigate it because it's the space

2693
01:47:17,750 --> 01:47:15,520
people doing these mysterious

2694
01:47:20,550 --> 01:47:17,760
mutilations there were cases on the

2695
01:47:22,870 --> 01:47:20,560
ranch for example that defy explanation

2696
01:47:24,470 --> 01:47:22,880
i'm thinking of one in particular

2697
01:47:26,870 --> 01:47:24,480
there were something like 14 head of

2698
01:47:28,790 --> 01:47:26,880
cattle that vanished that you'd see the

2699
01:47:30,629 --> 01:47:28,800
tracks lead out into the snow and then

2700
01:47:32,390 --> 01:47:30,639
the cow was gone as if it sucked up into

2701
01:47:34,790 --> 01:47:32,400
the sky there were cases that the

2702
01:47:36,470 --> 01:47:34,800
neighbors reported of cattle that seemed

2703
01:47:38,870 --> 01:47:36,480
to have been dropped from the sky their

2704
01:47:40,790 --> 01:47:38,880
legs were broken um there were cases on

2705
01:47:42,310 --> 01:47:40,800
the ranch one in particular that we

2706
01:47:44,390 --> 01:47:42,320
wrote about in a in the hunt for the

2707
01:47:46,149 --> 01:47:44,400
skinwalker the rancher and his wife had

2708
01:47:48,790 --> 01:47:46,159
had all this bizarre activity on their

2709
01:47:50,790 --> 01:47:48,800
property they'd carry on uh they were

2710
01:47:53,189 --> 01:47:50,800
really financially strapped because of

2711
01:47:55,030 --> 01:47:53,199
the loss of these very expensive animals

2712
01:47:57,189 --> 01:47:55,040
it's a sunday morning it's a bright

2713
01:47:59,750 --> 01:47:57,199
sunny day quiet out there in the country

2714
01:48:01,590 --> 01:47:59,760
they go out to tag the ears of newborn

2715
01:48:02,870 --> 01:48:01,600
cats they had several calves on the on

2716
01:48:05,030 --> 01:48:02,880
their pasture

2717
01:48:06,870 --> 01:48:05,040
they're going to tag the ears which is a

2718
01:48:09,189 --> 01:48:06,880
process that the ranchers do to identify

2719
01:48:11,430 --> 01:48:09,199
these animals there's a calf and it's

2720
01:48:13,430 --> 01:48:11,440
mom 50 yards from the house where they

2721
01:48:15,830 --> 01:48:13,440
live that's the first one they come to

2722
01:48:17,830 --> 01:48:15,840
they tag the ear this newborn calf they

2723
01:48:19,990 --> 01:48:17,840
move off across the property again very

2724
01:48:22,470 --> 01:48:20,000
quiet there's no obstruction the weather

2725
01:48:25,030 --> 01:48:22,480
is calm they go off on the property

2726
01:48:26,629 --> 01:48:25,040
about 30 minutes or so later a dog

2727
01:48:28,229 --> 01:48:26,639
that's traveling with them alerts them

2728
01:48:30,229 --> 01:48:28,239
that something's going on so they look

2729
01:48:31,270 --> 01:48:30,239
back at this calf the first one that

2730
01:48:34,390 --> 01:48:31,280
they had

2731
01:48:36,229 --> 01:48:34,400
tagged and the mom the cow is

2732
01:48:38,470 --> 01:48:36,239
going around in circles its eyes are

2733
01:48:40,950 --> 01:48:38,480
bulging out it's obviously distressed

2734
01:48:42,629 --> 01:48:40,960
it's dragging its leg behind it

2735
01:48:45,189 --> 01:48:42,639
rancher and his wife go back over there

2736
01:48:47,669 --> 01:48:45,199
to where this this calf was this calf is

2737
01:48:49,510 --> 01:48:47,679
completely emaciated it is wiped out it

2738
01:48:52,550 --> 01:48:49,520
is stripped of all its flesh the only

2739
01:48:54,629 --> 01:48:52,560
thing left is bones and high there's no

2740
01:48:55,669 --> 01:48:54,639
blood in the animal there's no blood on

2741
01:48:59,270 --> 01:48:55,679
the ground

2742
01:49:00,950 --> 01:48:59,280
75 pounds of meat gone how did it happen

2743
01:49:02,950 --> 01:49:00,960
why didn't they why weren't they able to

2744
01:49:04,870 --> 01:49:02,960
hear it could a predator what what

2745
01:49:06,550 --> 01:49:04,880
predator comes in and

2746
01:49:08,790 --> 01:49:06,560
wipes out a calf

2747
01:49:10,629 --> 01:49:08,800
and makes no sound and leaves no blood

2748
01:49:12,629 --> 01:49:10,639
uh nid's team brought in a tracker

2749
01:49:13,750 --> 01:49:12,639
professional tracker to look for animal

2750
01:49:18,550 --> 01:49:13,760
tracks

2751
01:49:20,950 --> 01:49:18,560
didn't find it they took samples of that

2752
01:49:22,550 --> 01:49:20,960
set it to two different pathology labs

2753
01:49:24,310 --> 01:49:22,560
the uh the

2754
01:49:25,830 --> 01:49:24,320
investigators figured out that two

2755
01:49:28,149 --> 01:49:25,840
different cutting instruments had been

2756
01:49:29,669 --> 01:49:28,159
used something like a heavy machete to

2757
01:49:31,430 --> 01:49:29,679
whack off chunks of flesh and then

2758
01:49:32,550 --> 01:49:31,440
something with the scalpel type

2759
01:49:34,470 --> 01:49:32,560
precision

2760
01:49:36,070 --> 01:49:34,480
how does that happen how does it happen

2761
01:49:36,790 --> 01:49:36,080
in broad daylight that nobody sees it

2762
01:49:38,390 --> 01:49:36,800
now

2763
01:49:40,870 --> 01:49:38,400
is that the mystery government

2764
01:49:43,669 --> 01:49:40,880
mutilators a team of commandos comes in

2765
01:49:45,830 --> 01:49:43,679
completely undetected and wipes out this

2766
01:49:48,310 --> 01:49:45,840
cap and leaves it there for people to

2767
01:49:49,990 --> 01:49:48,320
find um or is it something else i i

2768
01:49:53,030 --> 01:49:50,000
think it's probably something else maybe

2769
01:49:54,070 --> 01:49:53,040
column wants to add to that

2770
01:49:57,189 --> 01:49:54,080
well

2771
01:49:59,030 --> 01:49:57,199
you know that it goes back to um

2772
01:50:03,510 --> 01:49:59,040
the idea that

2773
01:50:04,629 --> 01:50:03,520
it's very very easy for a team of people

2774
01:50:08,229 --> 01:50:04,639
who are

2775
01:50:10,390 --> 01:50:08,239
uh sampling carrying out these illegal

2776
01:50:13,109 --> 01:50:10,400
uh killings of cattle

2777
01:50:15,430 --> 01:50:13,119
sampling at night because you've got two

2778
01:50:16,790 --> 01:50:15,440
things that are working for you

2779
01:50:18,550 --> 01:50:16,800
and that is

2780
01:50:21,830 --> 01:50:18,560
number one

2781
01:50:24,470 --> 01:50:21,840
you've got this whole aura of ufos

2782
01:50:26,950 --> 01:50:24,480
associated with cattle mutilations and

2783
01:50:29,590 --> 01:50:26,960
no respectable veterinarian or no

2784
01:50:31,669 --> 01:50:29,600
respectable police officer wants to have

2785
01:50:33,990 --> 01:50:31,679
anything to do with this if there's even

2786
01:50:36,470 --> 01:50:34,000
the taint of quote-unquote aliens

2787
01:50:39,109 --> 01:50:36,480
associated uh with it and the second

2788
01:50:41,350 --> 01:50:39,119
thing that you have going for you is you

2789
01:50:43,510 --> 01:50:41,360
have the decomposition process

2790
01:50:46,070 --> 01:50:43,520
especially in summer i mean the

2791
01:50:49,109 --> 01:50:46,080
decomposition process of a

2792
01:50:50,470 --> 01:50:49,119
cow is extremely rapid because their

2793
01:50:52,790 --> 01:50:50,480
entire

2794
01:50:55,350 --> 01:50:52,800
rumen which is the second or third

2795
01:50:58,390 --> 01:50:55,360
stomach that they have is loaded with

2796
01:51:01,109 --> 01:50:58,400
bacteria and microorganisms

2797
01:51:04,229 --> 01:51:01,119
which actually chew up uh the entire

2798
01:51:07,270 --> 01:51:04,239
flesh extremely quickly so all you have

2799
01:51:09,430 --> 01:51:07,280
to do if you are actually sampling an

2800
01:51:11,750 --> 01:51:09,440
animal on the ground is wait for 48

2801
01:51:14,629 --> 01:51:11,760
hours and pretty well all of the

2802
01:51:16,550 --> 01:51:14,639
evidence is gone by means of mother

2803
01:51:18,870 --> 01:51:16,560
nature you don't even have to cover up

2804
01:51:21,109 --> 01:51:18,880
your tracks all you have to do is is

2805
01:51:23,189 --> 01:51:21,119
take your samples and and get out of

2806
01:51:25,669 --> 01:51:23,199
there but you know what george is saying

2807
01:51:28,390 --> 01:51:25,679
is absolutely true there were a small

2808
01:51:30,950 --> 01:51:28,400
number of these cases that were where

2809
01:51:32,390 --> 01:51:30,960
were we documented and they were

2810
01:51:34,950 --> 01:51:32,400
obviously

2811
01:51:36,709 --> 01:51:34,960
not the uh you know the perpetrators

2812
01:51:39,750 --> 01:51:36,719
that i've been talking about there was

2813
01:51:42,790 --> 01:51:39,760
something else going on um and we we

2814
01:51:46,070 --> 01:51:42,800
documented cases in northern california

2815
01:51:48,310 --> 01:51:46,080
that were they also had this weird um

2816
01:51:50,149 --> 01:51:48,320
effect that that george described of the

2817
01:51:52,470 --> 01:51:50,159
case on in utah

2818
01:51:55,270 --> 01:51:52,480
we documented other cases in california

2819
01:51:59,189 --> 01:51:55,280
too so um there was a small component of

2820
01:52:01,189 --> 01:51:59,199
these that had this um bizarre

2821
01:52:03,830 --> 01:52:01,199
paranormal taint

2822
01:52:05,750 --> 01:52:03,840
to it and then you had this other

2823
01:52:07,669 --> 01:52:05,760
large number of cases

2824
01:52:10,070 --> 01:52:07,679
that were consistent with some kind of a

2825
01:52:12,709 --> 01:52:10,080
sampling exercise and you know it's the

2826
01:52:14,550 --> 01:52:12,719
same kind of thing as the ufo phenomenon

2827
01:52:17,750 --> 01:52:14,560
the united states government used the

2828
01:52:20,790 --> 01:52:17,760
ufo phenomenon as a way of covering up

2829
01:52:24,390 --> 01:52:20,800
their their special access programs so

2830
01:52:27,030 --> 01:52:24,400
maybe some sort of small contractor was

2831
01:52:29,430 --> 01:52:27,040
using the ufo lord associated with with

2832
01:52:32,310 --> 01:52:29,440
cat mutilations to also cover up their

2833
01:52:34,629 --> 01:52:32,320
tracks um you know same kind of thing

2834
01:52:37,669 --> 01:52:34,639
there are levels of deception

2835
01:52:39,910 --> 01:52:37,679
involved in investigating these kinds of

2836
01:52:41,750 --> 01:52:39,920
anomalies

2837
01:52:44,070 --> 01:52:41,760
george and colin i know you both have to

2838
01:52:45,830 --> 01:52:44,080
go so how about i read two questions and

2839
01:52:47,589 --> 01:52:45,840
you can choose one of them

2840
01:52:50,550 --> 01:52:47,599
so this one comes from stephen

2841
01:52:52,149 --> 01:52:50,560
greenstreet and he wants to know

2842
01:52:54,070 --> 01:52:52,159
what is the best piece of evidence of

2843
01:52:55,830 --> 01:52:54,080
something paranormal occurring at

2844
01:52:58,790 --> 01:52:55,840
skinwalker ranch and i'll add an

2845
01:53:00,070 --> 01:52:58,800
addendum best public piece of evidence

2846
01:53:03,350 --> 01:53:00,080
okay then

2847
01:53:05,350 --> 01:53:03,360
the second question is chris123456789

2848
01:53:07,750 --> 01:53:05,360
it says

2849
01:53:10,629 --> 01:53:07,760
and this is a wonderful question okay

2850
01:53:12,790 --> 01:53:10,639
if there were no observer to witness

2851
01:53:15,510 --> 01:53:12,800
these uaps bigfoot cattle mutilations

2852
01:53:17,669 --> 01:53:15,520
dark shadows etc would they still happen

2853
01:53:19,830 --> 01:53:17,679
how much of these phenomena are perhaps

2854
01:53:21,750 --> 01:53:19,840
co-created by a consciousness observing

2855
01:53:23,430 --> 01:53:21,760
them are these phenomena independent

2856
01:53:25,510 --> 01:53:23,440
entities with lives history goals

2857
01:53:27,030 --> 01:53:25,520
instincts of their own or are they

2858
01:53:29,589 --> 01:53:27,040
manifestations

2859
01:53:34,950 --> 01:53:29,599
for the benefit of a conscious observer

2860
01:53:40,390 --> 01:53:38,229
i think you should take that one column

2861
01:53:43,589 --> 01:53:40,400
well i mean you have brought up the sort

2862
01:53:44,390 --> 01:53:43,599
of or your listener that's a very sort

2863
01:53:47,589 --> 01:53:44,400
of

2864
01:53:51,189 --> 01:53:47,599
loaded question um because it does

2865
01:53:55,350 --> 01:53:51,199
it does get into this whole um

2866
01:53:58,870 --> 01:53:55,360
sort of dichotomy between uh observer

2867
01:54:00,550 --> 01:53:58,880
versus observed it gets into sort of the

2868
01:54:03,270 --> 01:54:00,560
the quantum

2869
01:54:05,109 --> 01:54:03,280
these quantum realities of how

2870
01:54:07,430 --> 01:54:05,119
whether or not observers

2871
01:54:09,830 --> 01:54:07,440
interfere with uh with

2872
01:54:12,870 --> 01:54:09,840
uh with experiments at the at the

2873
01:54:16,149 --> 01:54:12,880
quantum level and also it it does sort

2874
01:54:18,950 --> 01:54:16,159
of raise the question of uh what exactly

2875
01:54:20,390 --> 01:54:18,960
is human consciousness and you know one

2876
01:54:23,189 --> 01:54:20,400
of one of what

2877
01:54:26,149 --> 01:54:23,199
that the aspects that has been really

2878
01:54:28,709 --> 01:54:26,159
intriguing me is in the last five to ten

2879
01:54:31,189 --> 01:54:28,719
years there really has been

2880
01:54:33,910 --> 01:54:31,199
a sort of a literal explosion

2881
01:54:37,589 --> 01:54:33,920
of uh new people who are entering the

2882
01:54:39,990 --> 01:54:37,599
field of uh you know the investigation

2883
01:54:41,750 --> 01:54:40,000
of human consciousness

2884
01:54:45,109 --> 01:54:41,760
and and there you know some of these

2885
01:54:47,589 --> 01:54:45,119
people are sort of taking a stance on

2886
01:54:50,310 --> 01:54:47,599
human consciousness that is away from

2887
01:54:52,470 --> 01:54:50,320
the standard dogma that we've had for

2888
01:54:55,510 --> 01:54:52,480
about 100 years which is the

2889
01:54:58,390 --> 01:54:55,520
consciousness arises as a result of

2890
01:55:00,790 --> 01:54:58,400
neurochemical trafficking in the brain

2891
01:55:03,109 --> 01:55:00,800
and some of these people like you know i

2892
01:55:05,990 --> 01:55:03,119
can think of bernardo castro in the

2893
01:55:09,350 --> 01:55:06,000
netherlands and donald hoffman who is a

2894
01:55:12,870 --> 01:55:09,360
private professor at uc irvine

2895
01:55:15,030 --> 01:55:12,880
um federico fajin who is literally

2896
01:55:16,629 --> 01:55:15,040
the in the inventor of the

2897
01:55:19,430 --> 01:55:16,639
microprocessor

2898
01:55:21,830 --> 01:55:19,440
at intel corporation i mean talk about

2899
01:55:24,310 --> 01:55:21,840
hard-nosed materialist but i mean he's

2900
01:55:25,669 --> 01:55:24,320
written a book our two books i think

2901
01:55:27,270 --> 01:55:25,679
recently

2902
01:55:31,030 --> 01:55:27,280
that are basically saying that

2903
01:55:33,350 --> 01:55:31,040
consciousness may not arise as a result

2904
01:55:35,510 --> 01:55:33,360
of neurochemical trafficking in the

2905
01:55:37,830 --> 01:55:35,520
brain we've got people like edward

2906
01:55:39,589 --> 01:55:37,840
professor edward kelly at the division

2907
01:55:42,790 --> 01:55:39,599
of perceptual studies at the university

2908
01:55:46,470 --> 01:55:42,800
of virginia um you know and even in the

2909
01:55:49,189 --> 01:55:46,480
biological arena you've got um professor

2910
01:55:52,310 --> 01:55:49,199
uh robert lanza who's written a couple

2911
01:55:54,390 --> 01:55:52,320
of books on on biocentrism i mean these

2912
01:55:57,270 --> 01:55:54,400
people are also all saying the same

2913
01:56:00,149 --> 01:55:57,280
thing that you know consciousness is

2914
01:56:02,629 --> 01:56:00,159
prime you know consciousness is really

2915
01:56:05,750 --> 01:56:02,639
the sort of the mover and the shaker in

2916
01:56:08,790 --> 01:56:05,760
this whole equation so you know bernardo

2917
01:56:10,629 --> 01:56:08,800
castro especially has sort of uh written

2918
01:56:13,350 --> 01:56:10,639
in some of the blogs that he's written

2919
01:56:15,990 --> 01:56:13,360
for scientific american and uh elsewhere

2920
01:56:18,870 --> 01:56:16,000
he's really reduced it down to

2921
01:56:21,350 --> 01:56:18,880
uh sort of concepts that

2922
01:56:23,990 --> 01:56:21,360
you know even a biologist like myself

2923
01:56:25,910 --> 01:56:24,000
can understand and that is you know he's

2924
01:56:28,629 --> 01:56:25,920
he's put out this concept

2925
01:56:30,629 --> 01:56:28,639
you know of of you know maybe

2926
01:56:32,310 --> 01:56:30,639
maybe our our

2927
01:56:34,229 --> 01:56:32,320
sense of reality

2928
01:56:36,790 --> 01:56:34,239
is is actually

2929
01:56:39,350 --> 01:56:36,800
more like the dashboard of an aircraft

2930
01:56:42,629 --> 01:56:39,360
and that you're flying an aircraft via

2931
01:56:44,870 --> 01:56:42,639
instruments and outside this aircraft

2932
01:56:46,870 --> 01:56:44,880
um there's a sort of a storm and there's

2933
01:56:49,109 --> 01:56:46,880
a whole load of uh different things

2934
01:56:51,750 --> 01:56:49,119
happening but the pilot of the aircraft

2935
01:56:54,870 --> 01:56:51,760
is flying purely by use of this

2936
01:56:57,109 --> 01:56:54,880
instrumentation and so you know human

2937
01:56:59,910 --> 01:56:57,119
that the translation of the metaphor

2938
01:57:02,629 --> 01:56:59,920
into human consciousness is that human

2939
01:57:05,830 --> 01:57:02,639
perception is a function of the

2940
01:57:08,229 --> 01:57:05,840
dashboard and our five senses are are

2941
01:57:10,470 --> 01:57:08,239
essentially the instrumentation that

2942
01:57:13,270 --> 01:57:10,480
we're flying with through life and

2943
01:57:16,070 --> 01:57:13,280
outside these five senses there's a

2944
01:57:18,390 --> 01:57:16,080
whole world that we are not perceiving

2945
01:57:22,870 --> 01:57:18,400
and so one hypothesis of the

2946
01:57:25,030 --> 01:57:22,880
intersection of ufos versus this sort of

2947
01:57:28,390 --> 01:57:25,040
avant-garde way of looking at human

2948
01:57:31,750 --> 01:57:28,400
consciousness is that maybe ufos are

2949
01:57:34,870 --> 01:57:31,760
outside the dashboard um and they they

2950
01:57:37,910 --> 01:57:34,880
seem to appear or disappear at sort of

2951
01:57:40,950 --> 01:57:37,920
uh out of whim or sort of in a very sort

2952
01:57:44,550 --> 01:57:40,960
of fast way um maybe they're outside

2953
01:57:47,669 --> 01:57:44,560
this sort of dashboard and that you know

2954
01:57:51,030 --> 01:57:47,679
people in the future as they attack the

2955
01:57:52,709 --> 01:57:51,040
ufo phenomenon uh we need sort of people

2956
01:57:55,270 --> 01:57:52,719
who are

2957
01:57:57,350 --> 01:57:55,280
part of this vanguard of human

2958
01:57:59,750 --> 01:57:57,360
consciousness research because there may

2959
01:58:02,709 --> 01:57:59,760
be overlaps that we just have not looked

2960
01:58:05,189 --> 01:58:02,719
at and you know the sort of

2961
01:58:09,109 --> 01:58:05,199
the standard way of looking at the ufo

2962
01:58:11,030 --> 01:58:09,119
phenomenon especially sort of

2963
01:58:14,229 --> 01:58:11,040
from the perspective of the military

2964
01:58:16,870 --> 01:58:14,239
intelligence apparatus is we are going

2965
01:58:19,750 --> 01:58:16,880
to study only

2966
01:58:23,030 --> 01:58:19,760
the ufo performance we're going to study

2967
01:58:26,390 --> 01:58:23,040
only the five observables uh or the six

2968
01:58:28,550 --> 01:58:26,400
observables the the parameters of a ufo

2969
01:58:31,669 --> 01:58:28,560
that make it extremely

2970
01:58:33,910 --> 01:58:31,679
um unlikely that um it is you know a

2971
01:58:35,270 --> 01:58:33,920
special access program from the united

2972
01:58:36,629 --> 01:58:35,280
states

2973
01:58:38,470 --> 01:58:36,639
and that's all we're going to do

2974
01:58:41,510 --> 01:58:38,480
everything else is off the table because

2975
01:58:43,669 --> 01:58:41,520
quote unquote it's not a part of the

2976
01:58:47,030 --> 01:58:43,679
mandate from the united states security

2977
01:58:50,550 --> 01:58:47,040
apparatus but guess what you know maybe

2978
01:58:53,030 --> 01:58:50,560
the ufo phenomenon doesn't care at all

2979
01:58:56,070 --> 01:58:53,040
about the uh security parameters of the

2980
01:58:59,189 --> 01:58:56,080
united states on what constitutes

2981
01:59:01,750 --> 01:58:59,199
security parameters and what constitutes

2982
01:59:03,990 --> 01:59:01,760
a viable way of investigating this

2983
01:59:06,790 --> 01:59:04,000
phenomenon maybe the united states

2984
01:59:09,430 --> 01:59:06,800
military is going to investigate using

2985
01:59:11,189 --> 01:59:09,440
this narrow perspective and completely

2986
01:59:14,550 --> 01:59:11,199
miss the boat

2987
01:59:16,950 --> 01:59:14,560
i mean we've seen and heard snippets and

2988
01:59:20,310 --> 01:59:16,960
rumors and innuendo that some of these

2989
01:59:23,189 --> 01:59:20,320
tic-tac-tac pilots had long-term uh

2990
01:59:26,310 --> 01:59:23,199
effects you know that might even include

2991
01:59:28,390 --> 01:59:26,320
long-term effects on their psychology

2992
01:59:31,910 --> 01:59:28,400
and maybe their health or maybe their

2993
01:59:34,470 --> 01:59:31,920
consciousness so i see going forward

2994
01:59:37,750 --> 01:59:34,480
that you know we really need to broaden

2995
01:59:40,229 --> 01:59:37,760
the scope of the ufo investigative

2996
01:59:42,470 --> 01:59:40,239
framework as opposed to

2997
01:59:44,870 --> 01:59:42,480
narrowing it and i don't care what a

2998
01:59:47,910 --> 01:59:44,880
bureaucrat from under secretary of

2999
01:59:51,109 --> 01:59:47,920
defense for intelligence decides to say

3000
01:59:52,310 --> 01:59:51,119
what is part of the united states uh

3001
01:59:55,109 --> 01:59:52,320
military

3002
01:59:56,149 --> 01:59:55,119
uh perspective or not i don't think the

3003
02:00:00,149 --> 01:59:56,159
ufo

3004
02:00:03,109 --> 02:00:02,310
as for the question from stephen about

3005
02:00:07,510 --> 02:00:03,119
the

3006
02:00:09,589 --> 02:00:07,520
paranormal events i'd answered this way

3007
02:00:11,109 --> 02:00:09,599
i mean you know robert bigelow in an

3008
02:00:13,189 --> 02:00:11,119
interview we did

3009
02:00:15,189 --> 02:00:13,199
uh years ago and then another one last

3010
02:00:17,109 --> 02:00:15,199
year you know it's maddening what

3011
02:00:19,990 --> 02:00:17,119
happens at the ranch it's frustrating in

3012
02:00:23,189 --> 02:00:20,000
that whatever the intelligence is that's

3013
02:00:25,589 --> 02:00:23,199
there it calls the shots we get to see

3014
02:00:27,510 --> 02:00:25,599
what it allows us to see the most

3015
02:00:28,950 --> 02:00:27,520
compelling accounts come from

3016
02:00:30,950 --> 02:00:28,960
eyewitnesses the people who've been on

3017
02:00:33,589 --> 02:00:30,960
the property you know bigelow bought the

3018
02:00:36,149 --> 02:00:33,599
ranch in the mid 90s there's been a

3019
02:00:38,629 --> 02:00:36,159
constant presence there since the nid

3020
02:00:41,030 --> 02:00:38,639
study the asap study and then the

3021
02:00:42,709 --> 02:00:41,040
current efforts by brandon fugle and all

3022
02:00:44,709 --> 02:00:42,719
three of those groups have experienced

3023
02:00:46,310 --> 02:00:44,719
the same kinds of things it's never

3024
02:00:48,229 --> 02:00:46,320
exactly the same

3025
02:00:49,750 --> 02:00:48,239
the only thing that's predictable is its

3026
02:00:51,510 --> 02:00:49,760
unpredictability

3027
02:00:52,950 --> 02:00:51,520
a lot of the the accounts the very

3028
02:00:55,270 --> 02:00:52,960
compelling stories are things that

3029
02:00:57,270 --> 02:00:55,280
people see once and then it's gone

3030
02:00:59,109 --> 02:00:57,280
this intelligence and i think it is an

3031
02:01:01,030 --> 02:00:59,119
intelligence plays games it's a

3032
02:01:03,189 --> 02:01:01,040
trickster it messes with your mind it

3033
02:01:05,350 --> 02:01:03,199
always seems to know what you are going

3034
02:01:06,709 --> 02:01:05,360
to do before you do it

3035
02:01:08,790 --> 02:01:06,719
so

3036
02:01:11,189 --> 02:01:08,800
dramatic incidents can happen and

3037
02:01:12,390 --> 02:01:11,199
there's nothing left behind uh to to

3038
02:01:14,709 --> 02:01:12,400
prove that ever happened but

3039
02:01:16,790 --> 02:01:14,719
occasionally it becomes it has a

3040
02:01:18,790 --> 02:01:16,800
physical effect it has physical

3041
02:01:21,270 --> 02:01:18,800
demonstrable measurable effects for

3042
02:01:23,830 --> 02:01:21,280
example what happens to the animals you

3043
02:01:25,830 --> 02:01:23,840
have cattle that are mutilated you have

3044
02:01:28,310 --> 02:01:25,840
cats that are carved up in the middle of

3045
02:01:30,870 --> 02:01:28,320
the night in a snowstorm dogs that are

3046
02:01:33,350 --> 02:01:30,880
incinerated horses that are slashed by

3047
02:01:36,310 --> 02:01:33,360
these crypto creatures those things

3048
02:01:38,550 --> 02:01:36,320
happen they were documented uh you have

3049
02:01:40,709 --> 02:01:38,560
physical effects for example there were

3050
02:01:42,629 --> 02:01:40,719
four large bulls during the nidz era

3051
02:01:43,990 --> 02:01:42,639
that were in this corral the rancher and

3052
02:01:46,310 --> 02:01:44,000
his wife are going to town they've

3053
02:01:48,149 --> 02:01:46,320
already lost a lot of different heads of

3054
02:01:50,149 --> 02:01:48,159
livestock they're in danger of going

3055
02:01:52,149 --> 02:01:50,159
under financially they say to each other

3056
02:01:54,229 --> 02:01:52,159
casually boy if something happens to one

3057
02:01:56,229 --> 02:01:54,239
of those bulls we're in big trouble they

3058
02:01:58,310 --> 02:01:56,239
come back and less than an hour later

3059
02:02:00,470 --> 02:01:58,320
all four of the bulls are gone in a

3060
02:02:03,430 --> 02:02:00,480
panic they go looking for them

3061
02:02:06,070 --> 02:02:03,440
somehow those four bulls had been in

3062
02:02:08,870 --> 02:02:06,080
essence dematerialized from the corral

3063
02:02:11,270 --> 02:02:08,880
and crammed into this tiny storage shed

3064
02:02:12,709 --> 02:02:11,280
adjacent to this corral they're in a in

3065
02:02:14,950 --> 02:02:12,719
there the rancher finds them they're

3066
02:02:17,030 --> 02:02:14,960
kind of in a trance crammed in there you

3067
02:02:19,109 --> 02:02:17,040
could not get these these bulls into

3068
02:02:21,669 --> 02:02:19,119
there with a forklift and a team of army

3069
02:02:23,430 --> 02:02:21,679
commandos but somehow they got in there

3070
02:02:25,030 --> 02:02:23,440
they let the bulls out the bulls kick

3071
02:02:27,350 --> 02:02:25,040
off the side of it they get out they're

3072
02:02:30,229 --> 02:02:27,360
very surely in a bad mood photos are

3073
02:02:31,910 --> 02:02:30,239
taken the subsequent physical effects

3074
02:02:34,310 --> 02:02:31,920
that were measured by the nids guys

3075
02:02:36,550 --> 02:02:34,320
where the entire metal corral had been

3076
02:02:38,149 --> 02:02:36,560
magnetized and it stayed magnetized for

3077
02:02:40,870 --> 02:02:38,159
a couple of days there are all these

3078
02:02:43,030 --> 02:02:40,880
measurable em effects and effects on

3079
02:02:44,470 --> 02:02:43,040
equipment for example all three of those

3080
02:02:46,470 --> 02:02:44,480
organizations

3081
02:02:49,910 --> 02:02:46,480
have put all kinds of cameras out there

3082
02:02:51,750 --> 02:02:49,920
camera gear both up on on on uh poles

3083
02:02:54,550 --> 02:02:51,760
and at different places of the ranch and

3084
02:02:57,430 --> 02:02:54,560
they carry uh gear compasses and other

3085
02:02:59,910 --> 02:02:57,440
sensors to try to document effects this

3086
02:03:02,070 --> 02:02:59,920
phenomena whatever it is laughs at it it

3087
02:03:04,709 --> 02:03:02,080
will knock out compasses compasses will

3088
02:03:06,870 --> 02:03:04,719
spin around uh they're they're of no use

3089
02:03:09,270 --> 02:03:06,880
you have a camera the batteries drain

3090
02:03:11,030 --> 02:03:09,280
the camera dies right before something

3091
02:03:13,750 --> 02:03:11,040
happens where the camera would have been

3092
02:03:16,149 --> 02:03:13,760
able to document it it's infuriating

3093
02:03:17,830 --> 02:03:16,159
it's frustrating to try to document

3094
02:03:20,149 --> 02:03:17,840
things but it happens over and over

3095
02:03:23,189 --> 02:03:20,159
again over a period of almost close to

3096
02:03:25,109 --> 02:03:23,199
30 years now um so there are measurable

3097
02:03:26,870 --> 02:03:25,119
effects there was an ice circle that we

3098
02:03:28,709 --> 02:03:26,880
documented during the the mids period

3099
02:03:31,189 --> 02:03:28,719
that the knits guys documented an

3100
02:03:34,149 --> 02:03:31,199
impossible thing that was carved in this

3101
02:03:35,990 --> 02:03:34,159
tiny little thin layer of ice uh they

3102
02:03:37,750 --> 02:03:36,000
can't figure out how it happened there

3103
02:03:39,910 --> 02:03:37,760
was a there was one instance where

3104
02:03:41,510 --> 02:03:39,920
something went up a 75-foot telephone

3105
02:03:43,669 --> 02:03:41,520
pole where they had a camera and

3106
02:03:45,830 --> 02:03:43,679
destroyed it destroyed it while another

3107
02:03:48,870 --> 02:03:45,840
camera was watching it whatever did it

3108
02:03:51,430 --> 02:03:48,880
was invisible um it's very frustrating i

3109
02:03:53,589 --> 02:03:51,440
think it's frustrating on purpose it

3110
02:03:55,990 --> 02:03:53,599
gives us glimpses

3111
02:03:58,070 --> 02:03:56,000
of this other reality at times there

3112
02:03:59,750 --> 02:03:58,080
were holes in the sky that would appear

3113
02:04:01,750 --> 02:03:59,760
and craft would come in and out there

3114
02:04:05,189 --> 02:04:01,760
were craft that seemed to fly directly

3115
02:04:07,910 --> 02:04:05,199
into skinwalker ridge uh that defy our

3116
02:04:09,510 --> 02:04:07,920
physics uh there were other craft that

3117
02:04:10,629 --> 02:04:09,520
were you know the rancher and the family

3118
02:04:12,310 --> 02:04:10,639
they're in the first years that they

3119
02:04:13,990 --> 02:04:12,320
were there they'd see these things

3120
02:04:15,990 --> 02:04:14,000
they're not trying to document it for a

3121
02:04:17,350 --> 02:04:16,000
ufo audience they're trying to survive

3122
02:04:19,510 --> 02:04:17,360
out there on what they thought was their

3123
02:04:21,589 --> 02:04:19,520
dream property they end up giving it up

3124
02:04:23,589 --> 02:04:21,599
and moving away because they were so

3125
02:04:25,430 --> 02:04:23,599
frustrated by what happened to them so

3126
02:04:27,589 --> 02:04:25,440
it is difficult to document it is a

3127
02:04:29,910 --> 02:04:27,599
challenge to document it but it's a it's

3128
02:04:31,430 --> 02:04:29,920
an intriguing challenge it's an exciting

3129
02:04:32,149 --> 02:04:31,440
challenge and it's one we have to take

3130
02:04:34,390 --> 02:04:32,159
on

3131
02:04:37,030 --> 02:04:34,400
there is physical evidence that can be

3132
02:04:38,310 --> 02:04:37,040
examined and investigated a lot of the

3133
02:04:40,550 --> 02:04:38,320
things that happen are not in the

3134
02:04:43,750 --> 02:04:40,560
physical realm that makes it more of a

3135
02:04:47,270 --> 02:04:45,510
thank you so much george thank you so

3136
02:04:49,669 --> 02:04:47,280
much colin i appreciate it there are

3137
02:04:50,709 --> 02:04:49,679
more than 3 000 people watching

3138
02:04:53,270 --> 02:04:50,719
so

3139
02:04:55,189 --> 02:04:53,280
say hello to them many of them are just

3140
02:04:58,470 --> 02:04:55,199
expressing their thanks and plaudits

3141
02:05:00,070 --> 02:04:58,480
toward you all so thank you so much

3142
02:05:09,350 --> 02:05:00,080
it's

3143
02:05:10,870 --> 02:05:09,360
really good to uh have this discussion

3144
02:05:12,629 --> 02:05:10,880
enjoyable

3145
02:05:14,550 --> 02:05:12,639
okay and like i mentioned we'll look

3146
02:05:15,830 --> 02:05:14,560
into a part two in a few months so if

3147
02:05:17,109 --> 02:05:15,840
anyone has lingering questions just

3148
02:05:18,709 --> 02:05:17,119
write them down

3149
02:05:20,709 --> 02:05:18,719
take care i'll stick around to speak

3150
02:05:21,750 --> 02:05:20,719
with the audience if i can

3151
02:05:23,270 --> 02:05:21,760
thanks

3152
02:05:25,430 --> 02:05:23,280
bye bye

3153
02:05:29,990 --> 02:05:25,440
okay

3154
02:05:33,510 --> 02:05:31,990
yeah no it's not a sickness like that

3155
02:05:34,950 --> 02:05:33,520
what i'm feeling it's something else

3156
02:05:36,709 --> 02:05:34,960
it's not it's not a virus it's nothing

3157
02:05:38,870 --> 02:05:36,719
like that it's more

3158
02:05:40,470 --> 02:05:38,880
ah

3159
02:05:42,310 --> 02:05:40,480
i can't talk about it

3160
02:05:43,830 --> 02:05:42,320
okay so let's see

3161
02:05:46,229 --> 02:05:43,840
wolfstein thank you

3162
02:05:47,990 --> 02:05:46,239
jacob asks what work can individuals do

3163
02:05:49,910 --> 02:05:48,000
to contribute to the study of this i

3164
02:05:52,950 --> 02:05:49,920
believe somewhere around 35 minutes into

3165
02:05:55,589 --> 02:05:52,960
this maybe 40 minutes into this

3166
02:05:59,030 --> 02:05:55,599
column outlined some of that

3167
02:06:02,070 --> 02:05:59,040
so i'll go and look into that

3168
02:06:04,070 --> 02:06:02,080
and i will try to timestamp that

3169
02:06:05,589 --> 02:06:04,080
oral decoy says vertigo and anxiety i

3170
02:06:07,510 --> 02:06:05,599
can relate yeah i would say that it's

3171
02:06:08,709 --> 02:06:07,520
not vertical but anxiety

3172
02:06:11,030 --> 02:06:08,719
wilheim

3173
02:06:13,510 --> 02:06:11,040
says linda moulton deserves and

3174
02:06:14,950 --> 02:06:13,520
apologize so i know what you may mean an

3175
02:06:16,790 --> 02:06:14,960
apology and i

3176
02:06:18,229 --> 02:06:16,800
i don't want to talk about this publicly

3177
02:06:19,669 --> 02:06:18,239
because it doesn't

3178
02:06:23,030 --> 02:06:19,679
it's not

3179
02:06:24,470 --> 02:06:23,040
something that should be done but i did

3180
02:06:25,589 --> 02:06:24,480
apologize to

3181
02:06:28,830 --> 02:06:25,599
linda

3182
02:06:30,790 --> 02:06:28,840
thank you thank you everyone for

3183
02:06:34,069 --> 02:06:30,800
your

3184
02:06:39,510 --> 02:06:34,079
mentioned

3185
02:06:41,189 --> 02:06:39,520
know there's an interview with bernardo

3186
02:06:42,550 --> 02:06:41,199
castro i'm going to link that it's going

3187
02:06:44,629 --> 02:06:42,560
to be in the description same with

3188
02:06:46,310 --> 02:06:44,639
donald hoffman on this channel i think

3189
02:06:48,550 --> 02:06:46,320
they're some of the best with them and

3190
02:06:50,390 --> 02:06:48,560
that's not because of myself it's

3191
02:06:52,149 --> 02:06:50,400
because i happen to catch them at great

3192
02:06:54,709 --> 02:06:52,159
days

3193
02:06:56,709 --> 02:06:54,719
on their best behavior

3194
02:06:58,550 --> 02:06:56,719
and

3195
02:07:00,390 --> 02:06:58,560
donald hoffman is also coming on live on

3196
02:07:03,830 --> 02:07:00,400
sunday with yoshibok to talk about

3197
02:07:05,910 --> 02:07:03,840
consciousness after salvatore pais and

3198
02:07:08,310 --> 02:07:05,920
gary nolan which will occur in a few

3199
02:07:10,709 --> 02:07:08,320
weeks or so i'm thinking of taking a

3200
02:07:13,350 --> 02:07:10,719
lengthy break from this ufo content

3201
02:07:15,589 --> 02:07:13,360
the i tend to take matters

3202
02:07:17,270 --> 02:07:15,599
on this channel extremely seriously

3203
02:07:19,750 --> 02:07:17,280
whether they're about consciousness

3204
02:07:22,950 --> 02:07:19,760
theories or physics or what have you and

3205
02:07:24,390 --> 02:07:22,960
it's extremely destabilizing to me i

3206
02:07:26,790 --> 02:07:24,400
perhaps i shouldn't be taking them as

3207
02:07:27,750 --> 02:07:26,800
seriously as i do but i but i

3208
02:07:29,430 --> 02:07:27,760
but i

3209
02:07:32,310 --> 02:07:29,440
i treat them

3210
02:07:34,229 --> 02:07:32,320
while i take them seriously

3211
02:07:36,390 --> 02:07:34,239
there's this quote by renee descartes

3212
02:07:38,069 --> 02:07:36,400
which says which says something like i

3213
02:07:41,030 --> 02:07:38,079
heard you say something like i've fallen

3214
02:07:42,790 --> 02:07:41,040
unexpectedly into a deep whirlpool and i

3215
02:07:44,229 --> 02:07:42,800
can't stand at the bottom nor swim to

3216
02:07:47,189 --> 02:07:44,239
the top

3217
02:07:48,629 --> 02:07:47,199
so that's much like how i feel

3218
02:07:51,510 --> 02:07:48,639
and i want to also make sure that what

3219
02:07:52,950 --> 02:07:51,520
i'm doing on this ufo topic is fresh

3220
02:07:54,709 --> 02:07:52,960
and salutary

3221
02:07:56,629 --> 02:07:54,719
and while the comment section is filled

3222
02:07:58,470 --> 02:07:56,639
with plaudits

3223
02:08:00,550 --> 02:07:58,480
i want to make sure that the adulation

3224
02:08:03,189 --> 02:08:00,560
or the approbation is directed toward

3225
02:08:05,109 --> 02:08:03,199
the toe approach or the questions asked

3226
02:08:07,270 --> 02:08:05,119
i want to make sure that

3227
02:08:10,229 --> 02:08:07,280
that i'm

3228
02:08:11,270 --> 02:08:10,239
well i don't i don't see it i i it

3229
02:08:12,870 --> 02:08:11,280
doesn't mean it's not there it's just

3230
02:08:14,629 --> 02:08:12,880
that i don't see it so i need to be able

3231
02:08:15,910 --> 02:08:14,639
to see it and i also want to make sure

3232
02:08:17,589 --> 02:08:15,920
that i'm

3233
02:08:19,430 --> 02:08:17,599
there's so much there i want to make

3234
02:08:20,950 --> 02:08:19,440
sure that this is it's obvious that

3235
02:08:24,550 --> 02:08:20,960
these videos are quite popular on the

3236
02:08:28,229 --> 02:08:26,310
and i i fear

3237
02:08:29,910 --> 02:08:28,239
i want to make sure that what i'm doing

3238
02:08:32,870 --> 02:08:29,920
i'm not doing i'm not pursuing because

3239
02:08:34,550 --> 02:08:32,880
it's favored and it's so

3240
02:08:37,510 --> 02:08:34,560
like i don't feel like i am i feel like

3241
02:08:39,270 --> 02:08:37,520
i'm genuine about it and and i'm earnest

3242
02:08:42,069 --> 02:08:39,280
but i know how easy it is to delude

3243
02:08:44,069 --> 02:08:42,079
oneself into pursuing what's popular

3244
02:08:45,030 --> 02:08:44,079
so i need to take some time and collect

3245
02:08:47,990 --> 02:08:45,040
myself

3246
02:08:50,149 --> 02:08:48,000
i've seen people like even

3247
02:08:52,310 --> 02:08:50,159
even jordan peterson go down that route

3248
02:08:54,950 --> 02:08:52,320
where he has great work in psychology

3249
02:08:56,390 --> 02:08:54,960
and religion and now almost all of his

3250
02:08:58,550 --> 02:08:56,400
content is about

3251
02:09:00,470 --> 02:08:58,560
being anti-woken so on

3252
02:09:02,470 --> 02:09:00,480
and i i don't

3253
02:09:04,390 --> 02:09:02,480
i feel like he became embittered from

3254
02:09:05,750 --> 02:09:04,400
that and followed some of the crowd i

3255
02:09:07,109 --> 02:09:05,760
need to make sure that i'm not doing

3256
02:09:09,910 --> 02:09:07,119
that i need to make sure that what i'm

3257
02:09:11,350 --> 02:09:09,920
doing is not selfish and not

3258
02:09:12,790 --> 02:09:11,360
filled with

3259
02:09:14,069 --> 02:09:12,800
perfidy

3260
02:09:16,229 --> 02:09:14,079
mendacity

3261
02:09:17,669 --> 02:09:16,239
lies and deceit

3262
02:09:19,270 --> 02:09:17,679
not that it is not that it is but i'm

3263
02:09:21,830 --> 02:09:19,280
saying that

3264
02:09:24,229 --> 02:09:21,840
i need to introspect some more but i

3265
02:09:26,950 --> 02:09:24,239
also do too much introspection i'm a bit

3266
02:09:29,910 --> 02:09:26,960
extreme on that there is an upside to it

3267
02:09:32,470 --> 02:09:29,920
though that it would give some of the uf

3268
02:09:34,229 --> 02:09:32,480
let's think of the toe

3269
02:09:35,830 --> 02:09:34,239
project as being split into two audience

3270
02:09:38,629 --> 02:09:35,840
the ufo audience and then those who are

3271
02:09:40,310 --> 02:09:38,639
more interested in the stem fields while

3272
02:09:42,550 --> 02:09:40,320
it may be true that those who are in the

3273
02:09:44,629 --> 02:09:42,560
stem fields like the theoretical math

3274
02:09:46,550 --> 02:09:44,639
and physics should be more interested in

3275
02:09:48,229 --> 02:09:46,560
the phenomenon and that learning a

3276
02:09:50,229 --> 02:09:48,239
little bit about it can aid their

3277
02:09:53,030 --> 02:09:50,239
understanding of stem while that's true

3278
02:09:54,870 --> 02:09:53,040
i think the flip side is also true where

3279
02:09:57,189 --> 02:09:54,880
understanding even a modicum of the

3280
02:09:59,270 --> 02:09:57,199
foundations of mathematics and physics

3281
02:10:01,270 --> 02:09:59,280
may aid one's understanding of the

3282
02:10:03,109 --> 02:10:01,280
phenomenon so perhaps it will give some

3283
02:10:05,669 --> 02:10:03,119
of the people who are on the more ufo

3284
02:10:07,589 --> 02:10:05,679
oriented end of the toe audience or the

3285
02:10:10,149 --> 02:10:07,599
toe projects audience

3286
02:10:12,229 --> 02:10:10,159
a chance to go through some of the other

3287
02:10:14,229 --> 02:10:12,239
podcasts on this channel

3288
02:10:16,149 --> 02:10:14,239
in fact there's a starter playlist that

3289
02:10:18,229 --> 02:10:16,159
i've put together

3290
02:10:19,990 --> 02:10:18,239
sorted in terms of what's most

3291
02:10:22,069 --> 02:10:20,000
entertaining slash informative slash

3292
02:10:23,750 --> 02:10:22,079
easy to go through i'll put a link to

3293
02:10:25,350 --> 02:10:23,760
that in the description

3294
02:10:28,310 --> 02:10:25,360
jasmine says are you going to address

3295
02:10:30,069 --> 02:10:28,320
how ridiculously ridiculously ignorant

3296
02:10:31,990 --> 02:10:30,079
and disrespectful your chat is always

3297
02:10:34,950 --> 02:10:32,000
when these topics are being discussed

3298
02:10:37,189 --> 02:10:34,960
well i wouldn't say my chat that's such

3299
02:10:39,109 --> 02:10:37,199
a it's so tricky the the chat that

3300
02:10:41,510 --> 02:10:39,119
happens on the videos that

3301
02:10:43,030 --> 02:10:41,520
are posted on this channel yeah well i

3302
02:10:46,470 --> 02:10:43,040
don't know i don't have time to look

3303
02:10:49,750 --> 02:10:46,480
through these when i'm speaking and i do

3304
02:10:51,510 --> 02:10:49,760
with regard to linda multan howe i do

3305
02:10:53,830 --> 02:10:51,520
condemn the comments that speak ill of

3306
02:10:55,189 --> 02:10:53,840
her especially with derision i don't

3307
02:10:56,550 --> 02:10:55,199
think that one should be derogatory

3308
02:10:58,870 --> 02:10:56,560
toward linda or any guest you can be

3309
02:11:01,510 --> 02:10:58,880
derogatory toward me the toe project is

3310
02:11:03,669 --> 02:11:01,520
about love it's about clemency so please

3311
02:11:06,709 --> 02:11:03,679
if you're being snide

3312
02:11:08,470 --> 02:11:06,719
and you're desprising then that's not

3313
02:11:11,430 --> 02:11:08,480
the compassionate understanding that the

3314
02:11:14,390 --> 02:11:11,440
toe project is trying to emulate

3315
02:11:20,069 --> 02:11:17,430
no also keep in mind keep in mind hey

3316
02:11:21,830 --> 02:11:20,079
for something

3317
02:11:24,390 --> 02:11:21,840
this fractious

3318
02:11:27,030 --> 02:11:24,400
this controversial this topic that's so

3319
02:11:30,790 --> 02:11:29,669
the comments are actually extremely

3320
02:11:32,629 --> 02:11:30,800
civil

3321
02:11:34,550 --> 02:11:32,639
so that i'm surprised about while

3322
02:11:37,030 --> 02:11:34,560
obviously there are

3323
02:11:38,790 --> 02:11:37,040
there are negative comments i'm almost

3324
02:11:40,709 --> 02:11:38,800
always surprised at how much positive

3325
02:11:42,470 --> 02:11:40,719
comments there are there's so much that

3326
02:11:44,310 --> 02:11:42,480
i want to say about that linda multan

3327
02:11:47,030 --> 02:11:44,320
howe interview there's so much that i

3328
02:11:48,390 --> 02:11:47,040
regret and so much that i i just but i

3329
02:11:51,270 --> 02:11:48,400
feel like what i would be doing would be

3330
02:11:52,629 --> 02:11:51,280
justifying myself like a little child

3331
02:11:54,870 --> 02:11:52,639
and i don't want to do that i just want

3332
02:11:57,270 --> 02:11:54,880
to take my lumps

3333
02:11:59,270 --> 02:11:57,280
though there's so much that is false

3334
02:12:00,550 --> 02:11:59,280
that i've read for example

3335
02:12:01,990 --> 02:12:00,560
linda was under the impression that i

3336
02:12:03,750 --> 02:12:02,000
didn't read

3337
02:12:06,310 --> 02:12:03,760
or go through the material that she sent

3338
02:12:09,510 --> 02:12:06,320
which is false i watched all of what she

3339
02:12:10,950 --> 02:12:09,520
sent as for reading well she has plenty

3340
02:12:12,629 --> 02:12:10,960
of work and there were tomes so i wasn't

3341
02:12:13,830 --> 02:12:12,639
able to read all of it though i skimmed

3342
02:12:15,830 --> 02:12:13,840
it

3343
02:12:18,229 --> 02:12:15,840
and i feel like that contributed to a

3344
02:12:20,629 --> 02:12:18,239
negative impression of her toward me i

3345
02:12:22,229 --> 02:12:20,639
feel like my questions were ill-timed i

3346
02:12:24,709 --> 02:12:22,239
feel like it's false to say that i was

3347
02:12:26,310 --> 02:12:24,719
harder on her than i was on other guests

3348
02:12:28,709 --> 02:12:26,320
and someone keeps saying yeah but your

3349
02:12:29,990 --> 02:12:28,719
average guess what do you mean average

3350
02:12:31,430 --> 02:12:30,000
in statistics you don't look at the

3351
02:12:32,709 --> 02:12:31,440
average you look at variance like you

3352
02:12:34,870 --> 02:12:32,719
have to look there's something they're

3353
02:12:36,550 --> 02:12:34,880
higher order corrective terms variance

3354
02:12:38,390 --> 02:12:36,560
is one of them because if it unless a

3355
02:12:40,229 --> 02:12:38,400
distribution is simple then average

3356
02:12:43,350 --> 02:12:40,239
means nothing and i would say was in the

3357
02:12:45,589 --> 02:12:43,360
variance of the channel the way that i

3358
02:12:47,830 --> 02:12:45,599
spoke with her it doesn't mean that i

3359
02:12:50,790 --> 02:12:47,840
spoke optimally but i would i wouldn't

3360
02:12:52,709 --> 02:12:50,800
say it was drastically different

3361
02:12:54,390 --> 02:12:52,719
and i do regret it i do regret how it

3362
02:12:56,069 --> 02:12:54,400
happened some people say yeah you didn't

3363
02:12:58,870 --> 02:12:56,079
push back enough or you pushed back too

3364
02:13:00,790 --> 02:12:58,880
much my role on this toe

3365
02:13:04,310 --> 02:13:00,800
channel is not to be a skeptic or to

3366
02:13:05,750 --> 02:13:04,320
push back that's not how i see it i i

3367
02:13:07,589 --> 02:13:05,760
don't think in terms of that i don't

3368
02:13:10,470 --> 02:13:07,599
even think in terms of well how many i

3369
02:13:12,310 --> 02:13:10,480
have to have one hard question per

3370
02:13:14,709 --> 02:13:12,320
every five questions

3371
02:13:16,390 --> 02:13:14,719
i just wanted to know if

3372
02:13:17,910 --> 02:13:16,400
she was aware of the criticisms of her

3373
02:13:20,550 --> 02:13:17,920
work which is why i kept bringing it up

3374
02:13:22,950 --> 02:13:20,560
i didn't hear the answers from her

3375
02:13:24,550 --> 02:13:22,960
so i would repeat questions and thus we

3376
02:13:26,149 --> 02:13:24,560
spent more time on the criticisms

3377
02:13:28,069 --> 02:13:26,159
quote-unquote criticisms because i had

3378
02:13:29,350 --> 02:13:28,079
to keep repeating the questions because

3379
02:13:30,790 --> 02:13:29,360
she would give

3380
02:13:32,950 --> 02:13:30,800
an answer that was five to ten minutes

3381
02:13:36,149 --> 02:13:32,960
long and i couldn't hear the response to

3382
02:13:39,750 --> 02:13:38,310
now there's someone like lu elisando

3383
02:13:41,350 --> 02:13:39,760
who's infamous for not answering the

3384
02:13:43,189 --> 02:13:41,360
question so why is it any different with

3385
02:13:45,750 --> 02:13:43,199
him well the difference with lou is that

3386
02:13:48,870 --> 02:13:45,760
lou

3387
02:13:50,550 --> 02:13:48,880
answering the questions directly and

3388
02:13:52,790 --> 02:13:50,560
we'll even bring it up like he'll either

3389
02:13:54,950 --> 02:13:52,800
say i can't answer it because of reasons

3390
02:13:56,390 --> 02:13:54,960
x y and z

3391
02:13:57,990 --> 02:13:56,400
or he'll

3392
02:13:59,270 --> 02:13:58,000
parenthetically give an answer so i'll

3393
02:14:01,430 --> 02:13:59,280
give an answer that's parenthetically

3394
02:14:03,270 --> 02:14:01,440
related or metaphorically related or

3395
02:14:06,470 --> 02:14:03,280
thematically related

3396
02:14:07,750 --> 02:14:06,480
and also there were shorter answers

3397
02:14:09,270 --> 02:14:07,760
whereas with linda i would wait i'm

3398
02:14:11,669 --> 02:14:09,280
listening i'm listening i'm like linda i

3399
02:14:14,149 --> 02:14:11,679
didn't quite hear the answer to that

3400
02:14:15,430 --> 02:14:14,159
and also as for

3401
02:14:17,350 --> 02:14:15,440
speaking with her for two and a half

3402
02:14:20,950 --> 02:14:17,360
hours the interview was

3403
02:14:22,790 --> 02:14:20,960
essentially of unlim of unspecified time

3404
02:14:24,310 --> 02:14:22,800
and she had just come from proudly

3405
02:14:26,149 --> 02:14:24,320
stating that she has more energy than

3406
02:14:27,910 --> 02:14:26,159
she's ever had and that she works

3407
02:14:29,750 --> 02:14:27,920
18-hour days and that she speaks at

3408
02:14:31,830 --> 02:14:29,760
conferences for hours on end so i didn't

3409
02:14:33,109 --> 02:14:31,840
think it was uncouth to ask her hey can

3410
02:14:34,310 --> 02:14:33,119
you answer a couple more questions i

3411
02:14:36,310 --> 02:14:34,320
know we've been going for two and a half

3412
02:14:37,669 --> 02:14:36,320
hours

3413
02:14:38,950 --> 02:14:37,679
in fact i was taking her at her word

3414
02:14:41,669 --> 02:14:38,960
when she said that she had more energy

3415
02:14:44,149 --> 02:14:41,679
than she's ever had either way i just

3416
02:14:47,350 --> 02:14:44,159
have to move forward from that

3417
02:14:48,629 --> 02:14:47,360
okay well everyone

3418
02:14:50,149 --> 02:14:48,639
thank you

3419
02:14:53,270 --> 02:14:50,159
take care everyone i appreciate you all

3420
02:14:56,950 --> 02:14:55,270
the podcast is now finished if you'd

3421
02:15:00,149 --> 02:14:56,960
like to support conversations like this

3422
02:15:04,229 --> 02:15:00,159
then do consider going to patreon.com

3423
02:15:06,870 --> 02:15:04,239
c-u-r-t j-a-i-m-u-n-g-a-l

3424
02:15:08,709 --> 02:15:06,880
that is kurt jaimungle it's support from

3425
02:15:10,470 --> 02:15:08,719
the patrons and from the sponsors that